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Everything posted by tadmjones

  1. The point was they first picked the wrong strain for manufacture and inadvertently used live virus , and there was a second fuck up when they switched to an attenuated virus in an oral preparation. The digestive system reanimated the virus and those exposed to fecal matter, like parents changing diapers were infected . It is an example that the time it takes to know beyond hypothesis takes the time it takes. If these novel vaccines are effective enough to be worth the inherent risk all the better, no one can claim that is true now , to say nothing of the beginning of last year . Didnt the New England Journal of Medicine just have to admit they lied when they reported the vaccines were safe for pregnant women ? Were pregnant women part of the test cohort ? Given the relative and seemingly limited protection from infection conferred by this generation of covid vaccines , they are feeling more and more therapeutic which places them even further outside the realm of the OP. The anti-anti vaxxers argument presupposes the dubious idea of zero or near zero covid. The most reasonable estimation is that most people will be infected. Theses particular vaccines are not the only treatments to show some promise and efficacy in symptom relief and slowing of the progression of disease.
  2. One of Malone's major points is that the mass application of a novel vaccine should be treated more judiciously and that it is worrisome that the medical/scientific community seems to be blanking out(in the o'ist sense) on the fact that this roll out is unprecedented as far as historic norms and not allowing any criticisms to that fact get much 'airtime'. The first roll outs of the polio vax were disastrous, technicalities with the preparations lead to infections caused by the vaccines.
  3. That Atlantic article basically admits he did 'invent' the/a technique to introduce rna into cells ( the basics of the mRNA vaccine platform) and then criticizes him for allegedly not acknowledging others' contributions to the field. So he shouldn't bitch that few give him credit and only when pressed ? It's pure ad hominem and brought to you be the people who are actively discreditting him Facebook and a major commercial medical enterprise. Not an objective source.
  4. That number includes deaths of people ‘with’ COVID. Funny though the first time I saw description I figured ‘they’ realized the 660k number just doesn’t have as punch as it did, and the fact the death ticker slowed worked against the narrative . Funny you use it now. 1/500 lol
  5. Without getting into a discussion of specific treatments, should any attention be applied to the top down pressures that have not allowed physicians the freedom to treat their individual patients? If it can be shown that political pressure has affected the ability for physicians to exercise and apply their practice on individual cases , could that be described as an initiation of force upon the general public propagated by the government? The algorithms are showing me that there are many doctors that are frustrated by what they perceive as a top down effort to basically ‘send the patients home , until they turn blue and need acute care’ , they complain their ability to relieve symptom suffering and strategies that may decrease disease progression are being thwarted.
  6. Regardless the appropriateness of analogies between molecular biology and virology, in keeping with the OP context , are government actions to suppress treatment examples of initiation of force ?
  7. Perfect example of introduction of artificial selections pressures and some unintended consequences.
  8. It isn’t clear to me how genetic mutation in bacteria isn’t analogous to genetic mutation in viruses when considered through the lens of selection pressure.
  9. Most of the hospital ‘rationing’ is due to staffing changes, changes that were implemented in the beginning of the pandemic. But more specifically I was referring to the treatment protocols .
  10. Natural immunity can’t get worse? HIV/AIDS ? The same process that creates resistant bacterial strains is at play with viruses, so I’m not sure the analogy does fall a part. Selection pressures are ‘artificially’ introduced into replication and genomic change happens and can’t be identified until post-introduction. Western governments are applying pressure to their medical institutions to restrict treatment , isn't that an initiation of force ? Malone just hosted an international medical symposium to try and highlight the criminal act of withholding and discouraging treatment.
  11. If you are dead the risk of death is zero. Death is the cessation of life , what risk of death means is the risk of losing your life .
  12. Backwards , how so ? Vaccinated individuals are still liable? Following the mandate wouldn’t allow one to escape the consequences that unvaccinated would be subject to ?
  13. DM So by mandate you mean the government would absolve individuals of liability by following the mandate, and not that a government has a right to forcibly vaccinate individuals? As I believe Rand said that government would have the right to retaliate , eg forced quarantine, but not the right to forcibly inoculate.
  14. Exactly , this was a presentation on policy and not much on ( or at least what I've seen so far) virology, treatment ect.
  15. I had not heard of the good doctor until neo’s post , I found a link to the presentation on his Twitter feed. Sorry but I am on a mini notebook and lack the skill to post a link at the moment, I will get a link for you when I’m on an easier device .
  16. I watched about half of a presentation he gave at OCON and so far he is 100% political animal , waiting for the sciency guy to emerge.
  17. To paraphrase Marx , " I wouldn't be a member of any tribe that would let me in their sweatlog." I'm not sure if the funding is or should be an issue about the reasonable-ness of scientific findings when those findings come from voices that gloss over the fact that observation and data collection of multiyear studies can be reasonably compressed to nth/year studies and still hold the same standards of reliability.
  18. IF masking and vaccines are proving to be effective , which increasingly doesn't seem to be the case.
  19. To clarify is this discussion centered on when in principle it is legitimate for government to take action against the spread of infectious disease as abstraction ? Or discussing the Covid epidemic specifically and whether or not current government action aligns with principles of good governance ?
  20. Duck and weave , most think the weaving is simply extraneous to their detriment.
  21. Are the current slate of covid vaccines “leaky”? Do they offer a significant brake on transmission with a demonstrated safety for all potential recipients? Do we not need to answer these questions before applying moral arguments for mandating policy for their use ? Their use seems at this point to demonstrate a therapeutic effect against disease severity among recipients but they do not seem to provide a blanket brake on transmission, if that were the case , is an argument for mandated use appropriate in regards to initiation of force principles ?
  22. And a disgrace that the upper echelon of military command is more than tolerant of as there has not been one resignation, aside from a Marine Commander asking for accountability.
  23. I had a similar thought when I read the OP. But more along the lines that wealth or capital would be produced. Though at the loss of creativity and ingenuity that such a system stifles. Material wealth or capital would be produced but its production and subsequent use would be less efficient. Capitalism is based primarily in morality, practical praxis notwithstanding.
  24. Honestly I was responding to your phrasing, it 'felt' like you saying that businesses have a right to control their employees actions. By being 'concrete' I was trying to show how the principle of freedom of association would 'look' in the 'real world'. As an individual I alone would make the decision to be vaccinated or not, an employer can/has the right to set employment criteria that I may consider. As I said it was tone.
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