marko_25

I know what you mean styles. It's a question of whether we define music as a combination of timing, melody and rhythm, or whether it doesnt need to contain all of the above. As for stomp, they started off doing loads of stuff here in the U.K. The argument for melody would be that hitting objects such as trash cans, etc, doesnt contain ANY melody. The fact that differing objects have a higher or lower pitch than others when struck isnt creating any true melody atall, as in there is no melodic composition element. However, the timing and creation elements, to me, do suggest that its "musical" to some extent. I think a definition that disregards this out of hand as not being music is a false one, and I tend to agree with you.

I find this a strange comment. Mainly because singing is, essentially, a more musical version of talking. I mean this in 2 ways....firstly, there are a lot of sustained/held notes in singing which really are essential to the melody line and flow, and also the intervals (timing) between notes are far more varied. While people talk in differing tones, and do tend to change pitch, the use of timing and note variation is generally far more limited. It is a pleasure to hear some people talk, sure, but someones speech "more musical than ANY song"? I can't agree with that, however much I like hearing some people talk, but then again we all like different things so thats fair enough I guess. Just thought I'd comment!

This is exactly the problem, how to explain musical opinions in words. I have got better at this for sure, but sometimes you might have an extremely valid point but not be able to get it through because you just can't find the words or the description. It's very frustrating.

Yeh I do agree with you, like you said we could both play 3 or 4 simple powerchords using our basic knowledge with a strong sense of timing the playing of the chords to create an epic sound. My point is that when you start applying your own well constructed riff's, strong but subtle vocal melodies and perhaps well written lyrics, that's showing the artistic side with what can, on paper, be a very generic looking piece of music. Anyway I think we really are in agreement for the most part, it's just hard to always get meaning across using the written word. As for the comments on big country, well in terms of country music in general, it would be very easy to dismiss. I used to work with a guy that played country cd's all the time (this is in the U.K!) and so many of the songs followed the same pattern, however redeemed themselves with a strong sense of melody and timing. I'm not a country fan though I must admit.

Yes Christopher I think you make some good points. It is purely subjective of someone to say "I dont think classical music could ever have the sense of unity and full body/mind engagement....." (as metal). We just can't make the assumptions that classical music can't do for one person what rock/metal does for another.

Yes but this is exactly the point, a song in 4:4 with the main chord structure of G, D, Em, C could be made into a great song by someone who had real musical ability. It seems to me that you are saying these 2 elements combined make something musically corrupt. For example a 10 year old who has just picked up a guitar could chop these chords with no rhythm atall, whereas a really good guitar player would be able to subtely(sp?) strum the chords with skill to set up an atmosphere, hence directing the course and tempo of the song. On top of this they can/will often come up with brilliant instrumental work, including strong riff's or melody lines using their technical talent in terms of freely and skillfully using scales to create this, including subtle timing between notes, which notes are played when, etc. (although most pop-punk bands are awful I agree). Then also we have the vocal melody, in terms of notes used, in which order, which notes are held, which are more staccato etc. I do understand your point, I mean honestly to me a band like simple plan is extremely awful. However take the guitar work of slash, especially in the fantastic opening riff to guns'n'roses sweet child of mine. The chords used behind this riff are basically D, C and G. However the timing of the strumming of these chords sets up the song, but most of all, the beautiful riff placed over the top, along with good bass work, show real ability and a talent for creating melody. What I'm saying is that 4:4 timing in itself, or a common chord progression, can be the basis of a great song from very talented musicians. Granted the progression in itself is very worn, but having both of these elements in a song does not in the slightest make it musically redundant, however if what you put over the top of this is dreadful, then of course it will be bad.

We are all really inspired by different types of melody and rhythm. Now if you find something musically envigorating, you will do so regardless of the lyrics. To deny yourself these pleasure's based on the fact that the creators aren't an "objectivist band" would surely be detrimental to your enjoyment of music.

To give a name, there is an actress called leelee sobieski, she was in the film called "joy ride" in the U.S

I understand your point, certain poetry is almost itching to be set to music. However my comment was that for myself, as someone who writes music, I would fundamentally NOT allow myself to do this.

I think to me, a lot of beauty is located within the eyes of a woman. It would make sense for me to try and understand the reasons for this, but honestly I don't. For me eyes sometimes tell you a lot about a person, you can sense certain things from the eyes I feel.

I would rather write my own bad lyrics than use someone else's brilliant poetry, somehow I'd just feel bad about it, and very disappointed that I had taken the easy way by doing it.

Currently I'm enjoying half-life 2, which i have only recently acquired. It at least has a slightly different feel from most of the generic rubbish around. I must explain I'm an xbox gamer. If any of you guys love soccer (or football as we brits call it) you should try pro evolution soccer 5, fantastic game.

After reading your analysis of how you yourself analyse music, coupled with reading this statement, I just had to post. Yes, I am a musician of 12 years and play both keyboard and guitar. Chord progressions are only a PART of what makes music what it is. On a side note its important how a chord progression is used, how the musician/composer paces the song by this, this is part of what does or doesn't make a chord progression work. Being able to play a load of extended chords with no real sense of musicianship, in terms of playing ability, means absolutely nothing. On the other hand you can take a fairly obvious chord progression and put very strong riff's and melodies over the top of it and make a great song or piece of music. A strong sense of melody and good scale knowledge/ ability to use scales with personal timing to create music that has a strong element of composition to it, this is a very important part of music. I read your creed and nickelback comments, and I must say although you have a point on nickelback, to say Creed's music as a whole is corrupt (My own prison, Human clay) is way off the mark. The guitarist uses a fairly regular chord progression often, too often, but his ability to write effective riff's and melodies from using harmonic minor scales to using a middle-eastern sounding scale of even the plain old major scale, along with the ability to construct melodic songs that are very, very well paced abd build as they chug along is an ability in itself. That sort of musical intelligence with regards to the use of various scales is a large part of what makes a good composer. I live in the U.K so haven't been subjected to hearing creed all of the time like a lot of you guys from the U.S, I have rarely had to endure the horrible videos they have put out, and as a result, feel I can listen a little more objectively. You can give a good songwriter a ubiquitous 4 chord progression and if he has strong composition skills, he will use riff's, vocal melody,etc, to compose a piece of music that has its own personality.