oaktree

SMS, I'm not clear on a couple of things: Are you in high school or college? Do you live in the US?

Re: Indian objectivists: individuals and clubs. While Tara malkani was alive, she was like a clearing house for information on Indian Objectivists. I do not think anyone has replaced her role. There are individual objectivists in most of the bigger cities. As for clubs, I cannot say for certain, since it has been many years since I left. We used to have quite a few clubs about 10 years ago. While many of the members are now in the US, it would be reasonable to assume that many of the newer Indian objectivists have formed clubs. If you are interested in a particular city, I'll make inquiries. (Infosys...would that be Bangalore?) Meanwhile, two good places to start your search: 1) ARI: They used to send Tara lists of people from India writing in for info. They may likely still have the best info on coordinated efforts. [i know that a Fountainhead essay contest was held in Bombay a few years ago, and one was held in Delhi the last couple of years. If Bombay or Delhi interest you, I can find out more details.] 2) The "Celebrate Capitalism March (Prodos et al) had a couple of Indian contingents (Delhi and Bombay). Check http://www.celebratecapitalism.org/cities/index.html

Which Indian city? I know objectivists in some cities.

As I understand it, the court has said that a person has to identify himself when asked to do by a police officer, but a police officer still does not have unrestricted freedom to stop anyone and ask them who they are. In what ways do you think this will be abused?

Hello Nas, I discovered Ayn Rand in High school too. For a few years, I liked her, but kept searching for other possible answers: Bernard Shaw, Emerson, J.Krishnamurthy. Decided I was an objectivists and re-read the books a few times. Then in college, went "off" Rand for about a year and dabbled with others. That was good, because I ended up realizing how nutty most other philosophers are... yet, I had to discover it myself. Ended up as a convinced objectivist. Then, got confused by the whole Libertairian thing. For someone who wanted to see an objectivist world overnight, the apparent "schisms" in the objectivist "movement": were disappointing. Got over that too. The ride was great... many decades later I am glad it was that way. Welcome to the ride.

If the moderators here do not mind, why not post the details here. Moderators, any objections?

Warning, this is off-topic. Once or twice when I have told someone I am Indian, they thought I meant "American Indian". I don't like the terms "American Indian" and "Red Indian" because they institutionalize a historic error (though that does make them cute). I find "Native American" to be far, far worse because I think it is used by some(incorrectly and politcally) to imply "True American". This usurps the term "American". After thinking about it, I decided that whenever I think about it to myself, and whenever I can get away with it in public, I will use the term "aboriginee". In some ways, it means "native", but I think there are some connotations of tribalism and backwardness that it evoke that really annoy the aboriginees of the western hemisphere.

Better not start a separate section on child-rearing as there is already a "Rational Parenting" list. Not much point having two lists on the same subject area.

Yes, indeed.

Fifi, Even in the US, many laws are unjust. Ordinarily, you should obey unjust laws even if that means that you are being unjust to specific individuals in the process. Who do you think you are to oppose the law anyway? What is your individual judgement when matched against the collective wisdom? I once read a post by a so called objectivist who wanted to go through red lights, because he judged it was safe to do so. The bigger picture is that you benefit from the rule of law. If a few individuals have to be sacrificed, that is a price that is worth paying. If you do decide to pit your individual judgement of right and wrong against that of the popularly elected legislature, then you must do so in open revolt. While this will often cause the legal system to act against you and to continue deliver the injustice you sought to prevent, it will have the effect of changing the world to be a better place. This is a noble goal to which you should be willing to "sacrifice" the two individuals -- yourself and the victim of the "unjust" law. In fact, it is not a sacrifice at all because while to hurt yourself, you will end up saving many other potential victims.

An interesting idea. Yes, it would be nice to have a procedure in place by which a bill's prima facie constitutional justification has to be demonstrated in some type of judicial proceeding before it goes to final vote. Other than just the stuff in laws, is the "administrative" rules that come out of various government agencies. Some checks must be put in place there.

Pirated versions of AS and most other Rand fiction has been sold in India as early as the 1980's. Small-town railway stations (e.g. Muzzafarnagar) will usually have a "Wheelers" book stall. It is not surprizing to see "Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology" being sold (legitimate, not pirated versions). India has a large English-literate population. Rand's books are not the only ones to benefit from this. Lots of Indians can talk fluiently about Sartre, Kant, Marx, Kafka... you name it.

I agree

And if one does it only very occassionally and focusses on the message it can be interesting --- like reading Kant.

Excellent point.

Since we live under a rule of law, why would you be concerned if they are honest, hardworking and peaceful illegal immigrants. Turn them in.

Some things have such a high proportion of bad vs. good that it is hard to waste one's time one them, even being "active minded". Yet, if one has the time, the little grains of good hidden among the bad can be illuminating.

Tom, Here is some advice Put yourself first and the world second, or later. There are many good things happening ion the world and many bad things too. You will not see an Objectivist world in your lifetime, but you can have a lot of fun anyway. You have not said *what* career you are aiming toward, and perhaps you are too young to know for sure. If you are going to the humanities, you have a hard time ahead. If toward business or science, things will be easier. Either way, figure out what you have to do to become successful in life. Nothing succeeds like success. Seek out objectivists to be friends with. Not sure if you have slim pickings in your local area. When you are earning enough, make it a point to attend objectivist conferences. On the other hand, there are many objectivists who you do not want as friends, and thats fine -- but if you search enougn and honestly you'll find some gems. Look for good non objectivists you can be friends with and who have some common interests and let philosophy take a back seat when you're with them. Seek out the good (i.e. the element of truth) in non-objectivist things that you might otherwise be too hasty to dismiss. For example, suppose you want to be an economist, do not dismiss Keynes. So many people think he was right...why? Is there some aspect of reality that he got right? While he does not describe a world "as it has to be", does he describe "a world as it is"? I have learnt from many I consider enemies -- including Karl Marx. At the risk of repeating, the first steps toward changing the world are to understand the world, understand "where others are coming from", understand how to succeed, do what it takes to succeed, and then let others follow you to make the world a better place.

Objectivism is winning. Objective measure is funding of ARI. Millions. No neighbourhood church comes near.

I do not understand. I get around an injustice. How that offends others who bear injustices? My short cut not slows them. Think the short cut help people behind me in line. Otherwise they have extra one person more in line in front.

Ok. I thought it make me accessory to crime. Maybe it is ok not to turn in a bank robber too?

If I know a very hard working, objectivist illegal immigrant. I realize now I am wrong not to report him. Not to report him makes me part of his crime.

Good job by both.

i read this 3 times but then realized it is a good joke. i mean object / ivism i apologise if i was arbitrary i did not want to object arbitrarily each post of mine was serious to point out what i thought if i should assume all objectivism is right then i should not discuss it i discuss to learn from asking about my doubts i do not always find reasons given in the meanwhile i still believe in objectivism please understand i do not agree with killing children it is disgusting i even said this in previous post if i know someone who does that i will ensure they go to jail for many years so my point is i agree completely with all the conclusions but only on my belief i feel it is disgusting to even talk of such things but want better reasoning that is why i said "disgusting not an answer" i will try to explain better next time about my belief in objectivism to only ask for reasons to support my belief

you spend 5 weekend hours cleaning house and the spouse spends 1 hour because of not considering it important you like house temp at 20 degree and spouse want it at 23 you think these too small and too funny? but can be irritating and cause spousal quarrels