realitycheck44

I'm not sure I follow. How can you have one without the other? Isn't the reason for a capitalistic society partially because of the virtue of selfishness? How could you properly understand (and defend) Capitalism without first understanding the nature of man (ie selfishness is a virtue)? So my real question is what justification for Capitalism do these people have, before understanding the ethics behind it? Just curious Zak

Ya know, its on my "To Buy" list (along with a car and a new pair of skis), so I'm sure you know how that goes. I will buy it soon, hopefully. I looked at iTunes, but they only have 30 second samples of each song, which isn't very helpful in a 20 minute song. I'll get it and let you know how I like it. Zak

If you like the Postal Service, definitely check out Snow Patrol. I went out and bought it, it is really good. Thanks for understanding where I'm at. See, it all just kind of climaxed at the Green Day concert, but I'm somewhat over it now. The lyrics are not that importants, but I did find some good bands (ie Postal Service, Death Cab for Cutie, Snow Patrol), that are life-affirming. And, yeah, the Killers rock. They played close to where I live, but I wasn't able to go.

Yeah, I just saw it last night. It was awesome. One of the few movies lately that I actually like (I haven't seen the Incredibles yet). But yeah, I loved it too.

No Atlas Shrugged? That's odd. I certainly hope that more people start reading Rand. I am going to give Atlas Shrugged to three people this Christmas. One is a hardcore Demacrat/liberal (I have no idea whether she is pro-Capitalist or not) and the other is a hardcore Christian. They both have real potential to be Objectivist, they just haven't been introduced yet. Funny story, my mom gave Atlas Shrugged to my violin teacher a long time ago. Then I found out she is a orthodox Jew who likes Socialism. She says she hasn't "gotten around to it yet" If my whole English class read Atlas Shrugged, it would be the coolest thing ever. I asked my teacher about it. She said "I don't really like those kind of books." WHAT? Zak

This is why I origionally started this thread. I was becoming extremely disappointed with the horrible lyrics. First off, there were not that many responses to "Objectivist bands". When the topic shifted, I asked if I needed to start a new thread, but since nobody answered, I figured I might as well talk about other bands. If anybody has a problem with this, I have no problem discontinuing this thread. Although, would starting a new one simply labled "bands" really be appropriate in a forum such as this one? Zak

Don't worry about it. (Like you care anyway). I enjoy the Stones, Pink Floyd, Tom Petty, Dire Straits, Bruce Springstein, Queen, Simon and Garfunkel, the Ozark Mountain Daredevils, and others. What do you recomend, besides AC/DC? I am always looking for good music that my mom might allow me to play in the car. New age: I forgot Ben Folds (Rockin' The Suburbs is a great cd!), A Thorn For Every Heart, and Fall Out Boy.

Yeah, I sort of agree. I don't want to argue, but since this is true, why did Peikoff have that "introduction" in the thirty-fifth edition? It should have been after the novel, not before. I read the whole thing and it gave away so much of the novel. He did the same thing in We The Living. The reason I sort of agree is I was wondering about John Galt even though I knew he existed, the question was "who was he?". Anyway, I don't have any suggestions, but I won't ask any more questions about John Galt until we figure out a better way to let others know.

Their first CD "Tell All Your Friends" was my favorite CD for a long time. Then the band semi broke up with John Nolan (backing vocals) and Sean Cooper (guitar) leaving to form Straylight Run, who are extremely good. I have the new TBS cd, but I wasn't especially impressed (but that might be because I like John Nolan much more than Adam Lazzara). Definitely check out Straylight Run and the first TBS cd, if you haven't. Dashboard Confessional is okay, but when Chris Cabbara was with Further Seems Forever, they were definitely better. Check out "The Moon is Down" Blink-182's Dude Ranch cd is definitely their best, but the newest self titled one is probably second. Since nobody has mentioned Saves the Day, their first two albums are extremely good. Dropkick Murphys and Flogging Molly are both great. Irish punk rock with violin and mandolin. Dropkick is basically a bunch of drunk guys singing bar songs. Very funny, but I like Molly better. Both of Brand New's albums are awesome! Especially Deja Entendu, the latter one. If you haven't heard it, it is seriously good. Probably my all time favorite album (along with Tell All Your Friends). Minus the Bear and Built to Spill are also good. Both of Thursday's cd are exceptional. Senses Fail's "Let It Enfold You" is good too. Zak

I have already read it. I just forgot what happened, probably for two reasons. 1. I got caught up in the excitment of finding a flaw in John Galt, or Rand. 2. I read Atlas Shrugged during week-long backpacking trip, and I found that I did not retain some of the specific events. I should re-read it, but right now its not at the top of my list. As to how to keep the excitment in the book, I do not know. However, if you were reading it, why would you go to a thread about John Galt? I absolutely agree that it is a large part of the books charm. I would hate if anyone told me the ending to The Fountainhead (which I haven't read); thus I would not go to a thread about Roark, Keating, or Tooney.

I thought the quote refered to John Galt because at the very end, it says "A young boy - the one who had been punished for giving us a useful idea in our first year- got up, as we all sat silent, and walked straight to Ivy Starnes on the platform..." Actually, I don't know why. Now, that I referenced Atlas Shrugged (instead of just FTNI), I see that John Galt was the first to quit. Thanks guys. My bad. Zak

I was reading For The New Intellectual the other day when I came across the story of Twentieth Century Motors (from Atlas Shrugged), "From Each According To His Ability, To Each According To His Need" ( ). As it describes John Galt, "The first year, he figured out a work process that saved us thousands of man-hours. He gave it to 'the family', and didn't ask anything for it, either, couldn't ask, but that was all right with him. It was for the ideal, he said. But when he found himself voted as one of our ablest and sentenced to night work, because we hadn't gotten enough from him, he shut his mouth and his brain. You can bet he didn't come up with any ideas, the second year." Okay my question is why did he give it to "the family"? In We The Living, Kira knew intuitively it was wrong to live for anyone but yourself. Since Rand said that she knew Communism was wrong from the age of twelve, why didn't John Galt, with all his training from Hugh Akston, realize immediately that the philosophy adopted by Twentieth Century Motors was wrong? The only thing I can think of is he had not seen the outcome of Communism first hand, whereas Miss Rand/ Kira had. I don't necessarily think this is needed, though. John Galt should have realized that the new philosophy required man to live for the state/common good. Rand portrayed him as the ultimate hero, so I assume she had him act that way for a reason too. I just can't find it. Any thought or comments would be appreciated. Zak

What defines "fatherless"? Never seeing your father? Having your father leave or die at a young age? If so, what age? Does having a dead-beat dad qualify you as fatherless? As Mr. Laughlin already stated, it cannot simply mean divorce. My parents are divorced, but have such a good relationship that my dad comes for the weekend and stays in our guest room once or twice a month. I would definitely not consider myself fatherless, but I do have to do quite a few of the things he would do around the house. I actually think this is a good thing. If I could change the past and put them back together, I really don't think I would.

Yeah, Death Cab and Coheed rock, but I'll have to check out the other two. Toolboxnj: Do you like Thursday or Senses Fail, if you don't already know about them, they are both really good harder bands. The Killers are also one of my favorite bands. From their debut album, Mr. Brightside and Smile Like You Mean It. Also, I just revisited The Starting Line and they seem to have a fairly good sense of life. BTW: Do you think we should start a new thread for just plain music (like the movies one) or just talk about all kinds within this one? I keep finding myself wanting to share bands that have nothing to do with Objectivism, plus I would like to hear about other bands even if they don't have to do with O'ism. Zak

The whiteboard in my World History class is filled with quotes. A student wrote: "Somewhere in Texas a village is missing its idiot" Somebody retorted with "Somewhere in Massachusetts a donkey is missing its ass!" (Please excuse the profanity; it just didn't seem funny without it) Also: "Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things"

In order for god to be omnipotent he must be infinite, right. But, as Mr. Peikoff so clearly points out in OPAR, this is impossbile because "infinite does not mean large; it means no specific quantity, ie of no specific quantity. An infinite quantity would be a quantity without identity. But A is A. Every entity, accordingly, is finite; it is limited in the number of its qualities and in their extent; this applies to the universe as well." Therefore, it is impossible for something to be omnipotent or infinite. If you reject the axioms that Objectivism is based on, you are living in a dillusion. If you do not know what they are, I highly suggest you read about them. In any case, I would like to hear your argument against what Mr. Peikoff has to say. Zak

Wow. That was quite enlightening. However, I can't say I see the racism. Could you perhaps explain that a little better? Thanks, Zak

Dude, its so cool that you know other resonable people at your school. All the "smart" kids at my school worship Kant and other philosophers like him. They all advacate the typical anti-capitalist, anti-existence nilistic bull-crap. I really wish I knew somebody my age who read Rand and got it. Anyway, that my vent for the day. Breezy, have you read anything else, besides Atlas Shrugged? What did you think of Atlas Shrugged? Obviously it was good, but what points in Objectivism made you really think? What points did you already know and live by? Did it change you life, or clarify it? You haven't responded in a while, so I figured I'd just ask some questions in case you just don't know what to say.

I agree, god should be ommited from the pledge and the money. One comment though; you are not forced to say the pledge or even that line. Also, if anybody is thinking about making a big argument about this (like that one guy a while ago who claimed it made his daughter very uncomfortable or something), I think we should focus on advacating Capitalism first. Once we get a rational system in place, we can focus on the little things.

Yeah, I love that song too. ^^ Mr. Loki: Have you heard of the band Modest Mouse? I ask because they are from Issaquah too. They are really...uh... interesting. They have some good songs and some bad ones.

Six hours sounds about right during the school week, but on weekends I try to sleep in at least one day. It's really funny that I stumbled onto this thread right now because I have a really early flight tomorrow (I have to leave my house at 4am) and I still have to write an essay, pack, and clean my room. Yet for some reason I'm still here.

Yeah, I've been meaning to get that. How is it? Also, My Chemical Romance is also a really talented band, but their lyrics are quite troubled and sometimes violent. They are more screamo than indie, though. If you go to their website their songs are free and you don't even have to download them. I checked out the websites for The Speaking Canaries and Zombie, but the one for The Speaking Canaries would not work. Zombie has good music, but I prefer singing. That's why I don't really enjoy classical music, even though I play the violin. It just gets boring to me.

I have only read Atlas Shrugged and Anthem, but recently bought OPAR, For the New Intellectual, The Virtue of Selfishness, and Philosophy: Who Needs It. I read a teaser from all of them just to get an idea of what I wanted to start with. I have started OPAR and it takes somethinking, but I don't find it too difficult. Mr Laughin's suggestion of one chapter a month is fairly accurate. For The New Intellectual also looks very interesting, but I only read the first few pages. Personally I would stay away from collections of her essays, such as The Voice of Reason and Philosophy:Who Needs It. I read some of the Voice of Reason, but without really knowing her philosophy, it was too specific when I wanted something more general. BTW, this website helped my understanding so much. Just reading what others have to say really does wonders Zak

Will do. Actually I love the Postal Service and have heard a few song from The Flaming Lips. Lyrics are fairly important to me, but not everything. I was just asking for some bands that fit more with Objectivism to at least try to balance it at little. Since you like Indie rock you should go to straylightrun.comand check it out. You can download all their songs for free. I recommend Existentialism On Prom Night and The Tension and the Terror. Thanks for the bands. Zak

Hey does anybody know of any bands that are even remotely consistent with Objectivism? I enjoy alternative/indie rock, even some punk rock is okay, but lately the anti-mind and pro-welfare crap in the songs I listen to really annoy me. I used to like Weezer, Green Day, Brand New, Straylight Run (awesome band, horribly subjectivist lyrics ) Just to name a very few. Anyway, this has been bothering me more and more lately. I got completely fed up when I was at a Green Day concert the other night. I just realized how incredibly dumb and irrisponsible these people were. I used to think that bands were either making fun of other people or I interpreted their lyrics to what I wanted them to be. For example, Straylight Run has this song called "Existentialism on Prom Night". When I looked up the word existentialism, the encarta said something like "a nineteenth century philosophical movement centered around ones self. (I only read the first line ) I took this to mean something like Objectivism, where its good to be selfish. This was my favorite song- then I figured out what Existentialism really is. Brand New names Morrissey as a great influence. That sucks! I realized when I went to go pick up one of The Simths cds that they have a song called "Meat is Murder". I felt so disappointed because Brand New is a good band and has good lyrics, but why name such idiotic people as their influence? If anybody knows an good bands, I would greatly appreciate it. (Sorry I had to get that off my chest)