Apple Threatens to Close iTunes Store

[RationalBiker]

Here's the article.

I'm one of those guys who loves his iPod. I also like the iTunes store and purchase most of my digital music there (which is quite a bit actually).

However, I encourage Apple to stick to their guns on this. The first problem is the notion that a government agency should be setting royalty rates on music. That sounds like something that the artists, publishers and Apple should work out. Second is the notion that Apple should continue to run their store at a reduced profit or a profit loss. They are in the business to make money and as well they should as long as the market is there to support their product. I love that they are not ashamed to state they are in the business to make money as it seems to reflect well in their (IMHO) great product designs.

I disagree with the article's claim about a "lesson in DRM". If millions of consumers get angry about having problems accessing their music because iTunes shuts it's doors, they should have thought about that when they bought their iPods. I've always contended that those who disagree with DRM should not purchase DRM related music or devices (and also not steal those same things as an alternative). If there is no market for such a device with that limitation, no one will produce a device with that limitation.

As for the later part of the article with the spat between Apple and Norway over removing DRM from their content, Apple should tell Norway to pack sand (or ice as the case may be) and Apple should let Norway live without iPods and iTunes.

[Myself]

This news raises a bigger question. If Apple shutters its iTunes store in response to restrictive legislation, does this set a historical precedent? Does anyone know of any other company that withdrew its product in an "Atlas Shrugged" type response?

[eriatarka]

Its empty posturing, of course they wont close it.

Not that I'd shed many tears if they did anyway, DRM is horrible and iTunes mp3s are generally low quality (<192 cbr)

Edited October 1, 2008 by eriatarka

[Rearden_Steel]

Oh, no not Norway! With their massive market of 4.6 million how will Apple cope? Were talking about a country who’s GDP ranks up there with…Arizona!

Not to sound to much like Bill Maher but lets make a new rule: If your GDP isn’t equal to Wal-Mart’s you are in no economic position to make ultimatums. In the words of a previous Mad Men episode; “I laugh at you [Norway], every morning I wake up and I laugh at you!".

[DavidOdden]

Oh, no not Norway! With their massive market of 4.6 million how will Apple cope? Were talking about a country who’s GDP ranks up there with…Arizona!

As goes Norway, so goes the rest of Europe. The same law seems to exist in France, Germany and the Netherlands. Apple has conceded the point of principle which was their first big mistake. It isn't actually necessary for them to close shop, they can simply sell only those few labels that have agreed to sell unprotected music. This will of course irritate the consumer, and millions of rowdy Norwegian youth roaming the streets in protest might bring about a change in the law (might maybe). They can't unilaterally comply either, since they don't own the tunes they are selling for other companies.

[eriatarka]

Oh, no not Norway! With their massive market of 4.6 million how will Apple cope? Were talking about a country who’s GDP ranks up there with…Arizona!

Not to sound to much like Bill Maher but lets make a new rule: If your GDP isn’t equal to Wal-Mart’s you are in no economic position to make ultimatums. In the words of a previous Mad Men episode; “I laugh at you [Norway], every morning I wake up and I laugh at you!".

Pretty sure most people would rather live in Norway than in most US states (California and maybe New York excepted) tbh, given that it regularly tops most quality of life studies, not to mention the girls. There's much more to how 'good' a country is than its GDP.

edit: Norway also has a higher GDP per capita than the US (actually the 2nd highest in the world)

Edited October 1, 2008 by eriatarka

[01503]

Pretty sure most people would rather live in Norway than in most US states (California and maybe New York excepted) tbh, given that it regularly tops most quality of life studies, not to mention the girls. There's much more to how 'good' a country is than its GDP.

edit: Norway also has a higher GDP per capita than the US (actually the 2nd highest in the world)

I actually talked to a member of this forum in chat who lives in Norway; he surely does not like their economy. He says that although the GDP is higher (by only about 4000 US $) a Whopper meal costs about 12 USD, while it costs less than 6 here. And gasoline there is also twice as expensive; it's over 8 dollars! So, even though they make more money according to the GDP, the value of the dollar is worth MUCH less there. Half as much, approximately.

[Rearden_Steel]

Pretty sure most people would rather live in Norway than in most US states (California and maybe New York excepted) tbh, given that it regularly tops most quality of life studies, not to mention the girls. There's much more to how 'good' a country is than its GDP.

edit: Norway also has a higher GDP per capita than the US (actually the 2nd highest in the world)

Oh, yea! Then why is there only 4 million people there! Appearently the same amount of people want to live in Alabama.

If you call a 32% income tax and a 25% sales tax quality of life then I have a lovely time share in North Korea you might be interested in. With their state being maintained by nationalized oil and gas and a useless monarch running about spending your money; Norway, is like the Saudi Arabia of Europe. As for the girls I'd rather just go to Latvia, who not only has gorgeous women but the most lopsided female to male ratio in the world (CIA Fact book).

Here is a funny article I found: Norway Forgets Who They're Dealing With, Demands Apple Open Up FairPlay DRM (Again)

Norway is ostensibly big on neutrality, even when it gets them invaded and pulverized, so it's not surprisingly it hates Apple's FairPlay DRM, which only lets songs play on iPods. It even has a law requiring that consumers be able to use digital media with whatever device they choose, which FairPlay obviously pees all over. After a lovely chat with Apple in February, not much has changed, so gentle Norway is going to play war against Apple over FairPlay for the rest of hapless Europe.

If Apple doesn't respond to the allegations by Nov. 3, Norway will take Apple before its very diplomatic and wussy-sounding Market Council as the first test case to force Apple to bust open FairPlay. If Norway is for seriously taking on Apple, iTunes-loving Norwegians better enjoy its full DRM'd bounty while they can, especially if any ruling about FairPlay extends to movies and TV shows—guess what's slathered all over them? Why?

Likelier actions from Apple than handing over the FairPlay keys: shutting down the iTunes Store in Norway, pulling everything with DRM, or a blitzkrieg into Oslo.

Bold mine

Edited October 1, 2008 by Rearden_Steel

[RationalBiker]

Its empty posturing, of course they wont close it.

I tend to agree this is the case. Still, I'm hoping they actually mean it even if it impacts my enjoyment of my iPod and music. It would be very refreshing to see such a prominent company act on principle and "shrug" under such unjust treatment.

[JMartins]

If you call a 32% income tax and a 25% sales tax quality of life then I have a lovely time share in North Korea you might be interested in. With their state being maintained by nationalized oil and gas and a useless monarch running about spending your money; Norway, is like the Saudi Arabia of Europe. As for the girls I'd rather just go to Latvia, who not only has gorgeous women but the most lopsided female to male ratio in the world (CIA Fact book).

Bold mine

Actually the average income tax rate here is at 38%. I'm a student, with a student loan and a part-time job, and even I have to pay 38% (though with all taxes put together, we pay well over 50% of our money to the state). We're truly creatures of the state here. Our finance minister belongs to the equivalent of the American Socialist Party, and her party's agenda is to force people to work no more than 6 hours a day, and to abolish grades in school -- topics which are being seriously discussed at the Storting.

The sense of life here is horrible -- it can be described as "don't think you're any better than me". When our prime minister publicly states that he's going to "fleece the wealthy", he's being cheered on by most of the population. The richest man of Norway, the entrepreneur John Fredriksen, recently left the country in disgust, saying he would not invest another single coin in Norway (much to my joy).

Depending on how the financial crisis turns out, I'll be moving to the United States as soon as I finish my studies. It's too bad I'll be bound by Norwegian law to pay all my taxes to the Norwegian state for 5 years after having moved, and that the timer resets if I go to visit my family there for too long.

Edited October 1, 2008 by JMartins

[Zip]

It's too bad I'll be bound by Norwegian law to pay all my taxes to the Norwegian state for 5 years after having moved, and that the timer resets if I go to visit my family there for too long.

What would/could they do to you as an American citizen should you tell them to go pound sand?

[JMartins]

What would/could they do to you as an American citizen should you tell them to go pound sand?

I've purchased a book on this law which, it appears, may in itself be larger than the U.S. Constitution. The first advice I am given in it, is to "seek professional help to interpret the law" before moving to another country. I haven't read it yet however, so I'm not sure what happens if I live in the US long enough to qualify for becoming a citizen, but inadvertently reset the "Norwegian tax timer" by visiting the home country for too many days. I can let you know when I find out.

Edited October 1, 2008 by JMartins

[Speedy]

Nice job Apple!

Whilst I'm no fan of DRM (I try to buy DRM free music) Apple certainly must stand up for its rights. It's particurly good that its a well respected company too, might help make some people look at things differently

[DavidOdden]

I haven't read it yet however, so I'm not sure what happens if I live in the US long enough to qualify for becoming a citizen, but inadvertently reset the "Norwegian tax timer" by visiting the home country for too many days.

I think you'll find that you automatically lose Norwegian citizenship if you voluntarily gain US citizenship. If you are not a Norwegian citizen and are not residing in Norway, the tax timer wouldn't matter since they would have no further authority over you.

[Rearden_Steel]

Actually the average income tax rate here is at 38%. I'm a student, with a student loan and a part-time job, and even I have to pay 38% (though with all taxes put together, we pay well over 50% of our money to the state).

The numbers I was using were five years old . I figured it was probably more now.

I met a guy once who worked on an oil rig in Norway and said if he works overtime he has to pay 60% of it in taxes. I couldn't find anything documenting this though. Perhaps JMartins could enlighten us.