Jump to content
Objectivism Online Forum
Sign in to follow this  
ST1DinOH

Going on strike if Obama wins

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

this is my first post here (not counting a brief hello in the local forum), and i'd like to start things off by letting you all think i'm quite mad.

i'm currently unemployed. laid off back in july when the place i worked for went under. since then i've been trying to start a business, had one within my grasp but things fell through at the last moment, so i was going to start from scratch. then i saw the polls, and i made a rather rash decision i'm prepared to stand behind.

if obama wins, i will refuse to contribute to this mess. i will become an order taker, a cog in the machine. a rusty cog that slows the mechanism. one that that causes the motor to work harder, one that causes the machine to labor beyond it's original intention.

i will remain unemployed as long as possible.

i will apply for and attempt to recieve as much state and local funding as i can.

i will become one of the lazy servitude masses.

i will refuse to devote my mind, spirit, and energy to those who will do nothing but steal from my efforts.

i will deny them the right to loot and plunder my ability and i will become one of the need.

i will become this woman:

i've just finished atlas shrugged. if you read my profile you'll see what's brought me here. the book speaks of atlantis and all the great producing minds retreat and withdraw from the world to watch it crumble. i'd be nice, but it's not practical for someone in 2008. i'm not about to go all communal on life and run away to idaho and join a cult or something, but i do wish to contribute nothing to what i see coming.

so i say this:

if obama wins, if obama becomes presidenet and has controll of all branches of government...

i am on strike.

now...here's my question.

does this make me a member of atlantis...or does this make me one of john gaults former co-workers at the factory doing as little as possible and expecting to take from ability?

on a base level this makes me feel as a moocher.

but what if i'm not alone? what if all the dedicated working people out there, in my situation (currently laid off) decide to just not go back to work. decide to not support a corrupt system. decide not to allow maobama and the obomunists to rely on people of ability and drive to support those who do not wish to contribute.

does this make me one of those people? or am i one of those proud atlantians who bask in the glow of the golden dollar sign in that magical valley?

prop me up or tear me down, i await your replies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
prop me up or tear me down, i await your replies.
I don't think your analysis of the situation is rational, because it's based on a hypothetical that doesn't have credible support, and the conditional nature of your conclusion is also not supported. Neither Obama nor McCain will bring the second renaissance, neither candidate will suddenly life the chains of government from our shoulders. And neither candidate is Kim Jong Il incarnate. I understand that you're quite mad (in one sense), but man does not survive by dint of the strength of animal emotions. If you've read AS, you will understand that those who left "outside" society for Galt's Gulch did not do so in an emotional snit, they did so after long and careful reasoning. With either candidate, you will still pay taxes; with either candidate, we will still move closer toward socialized medicine. Regulations will expand. There is not enough difference between the candidates that the fact of one being elected will be more cataclysmic.

You are not considering the question from the correct moral perspective: what is necessary for your life? You are thinking in terms of "not contributing to those bastards", so you're defining your actions in terms of those people. How does it further your life to become lazy, mentally stifled, servile? Would you become addicted to meth in order to teach them a lesson? If not, why not?

I suggest that you abandon your plan to self-destruct: that you continue to live, only start living for your own sake, so start pursuing things that are values to you. You will not always succeed, but you will succeed some of the time. If you find that life if no longer actually possible for you, you can rethink your current involvement with society -- based on the actual facts at hand. If Obama actually manages to confiscate all person wealth above $150,000 annually (this being the new Biden-based figure), reconsider. If (ludicrous hypothetical) McCain is elected, and Palin converts our secular government into an Assembly of God theocracy, you can deal with that fact appropriately. Neither will actually happen. I suggest dealing with the actual, not the imaginary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't think your analysis of the situation is rational, because it's based on a hypothetical that doesn't have credible support, and the conditional nature of your conclusion is also not supported. Neither Obama nor McCain will bring the second renaissance, neither candidate will suddenly life the chains of government from our shoulders. And neither candidate is Kim Jong Il incarnate. I understand that you're quite mad (in one sense), but man does not survive by dint of the strength of animal emotions. If you've read AS, you will understand that those who left "outside" society for Galt's Gulch did not do so in an emotional snit, they did so after long and careful reasoning. With either candidate, you will still pay taxes; with either candidate, we will still move closer toward socialized medicine. Regulations will expand. There is not enough difference between the candidates that the fact of one being elected will be more cataclysmic.

i will agree that McCain is in no way "the answer" to the problem at hand. but i've simply had enough. the way i see it is this. we are on this boat, we already have these anchors cast overboard holding us down. we need a guy with a knife to come buy and cut some ropes. McCain doesn't have the knife, but Obama has a shit-ton of anchors.

i'm 30, i've been carefully considering this situation for a long time. each election cycle we see more and more intervention. either a little bit more or a whole lot more...these are our choices.

this time we have the choice before us where one of the two options is the most socialistic bastard the political factory has ever rolled out. he's leading the "polls". i've got a business ready to go in case McCain wins, but if Obama wins i'm done. i refuse to just say "here take everything i have, whip me, beat me, break me, rape me."

not going to happen.

if McCain somehow pulls this off i'll do the best i can to make something for myself, if not i have no kids or wife to worry about, i can live on next to nothing. and i can do so happily for the next 4 years. it'll be a little vacation for me, and i'd gladly roll out the business the day Obama leaves office. i figure this is a much better option than running away to Canada like everyone else is claiming.

i will agree that i am angry, and i will agree that often decisions made out of rage and anger are rarely wise ones. but i'll make a "bad decision" and take the next 4 years thinking of all the "good" decisions i'll be making once our dear leader steps down.

it'll be like a very long minimalistic vacation :huh:

You are not considering the question from the correct moral perspective: what is necessary for your life? You are thinking in terms of "not contributing to those bastards", so you're defining your actions in terms of those people. How does it further your life to become lazy, mentally stifled, servile? Would you become addicted to meth in order to teach them a lesson? If not, why not?

i don't think smoking meth and being the guy on strike in this situation are comparable. for one, meth is a mind altering addictive substance...

...

wait, ok you may have a point.

but as for "my life" and "my needs" i have all i need. i can survive on ramen and family packs of frozen burger patties, i've done it before when i first ventured out on my own, i can do it again. i've also heard that government cheese makes a mean grilled cheese sammich so i've got that going for me.

which is nice.

there are other parts to the plan which i should have mentioned. the plan doesn't involve sitting at home being a lazy, mentally stifled, servile, individual. it involves me presenting this as a front, and working under the table. basically welfare fraud...

working under the table for friends or business sympathetic to my cause. starting a "off the books" type venture or two. also getting everything setup and ready to go for the day i decide to start my small business and achieve my dream to sign the front of multiple paycheck instead of the back of one per week.

i'll still be maintaining my life to a livable level i'll be just fine. but i'll be able to maintain the moniker of "not contributing to those bastards" without sacrificing to much of my personal respect.

I suggest that you abandon your plan to self-destruct: that you continue to live, only start living for your own sake, so start pursuing things that are values to you. You will not always succeed, but you will succeed some of the time. If you find that life if no longer actually possible for you, you can rethink your current involvement with society -- based on the actual facts at hand. If Obama actually manages to confiscate all person wealth above $150,000 annually (this being the new Biden-based figure), reconsider. If (ludicrous hypothetical) McCain is elected, and Palin converts our secular government into an Assembly of God theocracy, you can deal with that fact appropriately. Neither will actually happen. I suggest dealing with the actual, not the imaginary.

not self-destructing and living on my own sake is my plan, therefore i am encouraged to not abandon it.

i don't imagine that day one for *shudder* president Obama will be the instillation of communism. but enough is enough. this is my breaking point, this is my last straw. if he gets in office, i'll be getting out of servitude to the moochers. i won't allow someone like the woman in the link i posted to profit from my hard work and dedication any longer. not because of the color of her skin, but because of the words coming from her mouth. that clarification may not have been necessary here, but i feel it's important to concentrate on the audio, not the video. if this person were bright green it would sound just as shameful and hopeless.

please, continue to discuss this. i'm on a moral fence here. i kinda want someone to push me onto the side of reason but you didn't push nearly hard enough (not asking for flaming, just a stronger point). thank you for your reply, but i do still think i'm in the right here from where i stand. this is my atlantis, the only way i know how.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How does it further your life to become lazy, mentally stifled, servile?
That is a very good point.

i will apply for and attempt to recieve as much state and local funding as i can. i will become one of the lazy servitude masses...

does this make me a member of atlantis...or does this make me one of john gaults former co-workers at the factory doing as little as possible and expecting to take from ability?

Doesn't that answer itself?

each election cycle we see more and more intervention. either a little bit more or a whole lot more...these are our choices.
Questions: what did you do from 2004 to 2008 to prevent an Obama from becoming president? And what are you going to do from 2008 to 2012 to prevent an Obama from being reelected?? I don't know what you did '04-'08, but it sounds like you plan on doing less and expecting more.

i'll make a "bad decision" and take the next 4 years thinking of all the "good" decisions i'll be making once our dear leader steps down.
That's horrible thinking. There's isn't a whole lot of reason to believe that "dear leader" will be stepping down in four years. It sounds to the jaded ear like you're waiting for "the perfect moment" to start your business.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's just as irrational an idea as Tim McVeigh had: You live in the greatest country that ever existed, how is it a good idea to try and destroy it?

If you dissagree, please name a better one, and of course that's the end of the conversation since you can simply move there and live happily ever after.

If everyone reacted the way you are reacting during the time this place was a british colony, where would America and the world be now?

Is the country taking a step backward? Sure, but the situation is in no way hopeless: most of the people are not actually hurdling down the wrong path, they are just lost, and looking for a good idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's just as irrational an idea as Tim McVeigh had: You live in the greatest country that ever existed, how is it a good idea to try and destroy it?

If you dissagree, please name a better one, and of course that's the end of the conversation since you can simply move there and live happily ever after.

If everyone reacted the way you are reacting during the time this place was a british colony, where would America and the world be now?

Is the country taking a step backward? Sure, but the situation is in no way hopeless: most of the people are not actually hurdling down the wrong path, they are just lost, and looking for a good idea.

I agree with this and I'll add that I live in Britain which it's safe to say is worse off politically and economically than the United States; yet people still grow rich and happy here. The situation in reality is not as bad as the situation in Atlas Shrugged. America has beaten British imperialism, fascism and communism; all of which seemed to be unstoppable at the time.

Perhaps you should consider your problems from a psychological perspective: are you using Obama to rationalise your personal insecurities about starting a business?

Edited by James I

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The proper attitude to take is that no one -- especially not some politician like Obama -- is going to stop you from achieving your goals. If you really have a passion for the work you do, than sacrificing four years of your working life would be unbearable torture. As long as you can still achieve a net gain you should continue working. If you're trying to be some martyr to an "Atlas Shrugged type" strike you will accomplish nothing. No one will notice and no one will care. Be selfish. Keep working.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
but as for "my life" and "my needs" i have all i need. i can survive on ramen and family packs of frozen burger patties, i've done it before when i first ventured out on my own, i can do it again. i've also heard that government cheese makes a mean grilled cheese sammich so i've got that going for me.
Okay, that's good. But setting aside the basic roof-and-food questions, what it is that you do with your mind to survive? Chemical engineering, carpentry, stock trading, retail sales, Italian fooking, writing books... all of these come to mind as things you might do. You don't have to 'fess up in detail, but here's an example. Me, I got interested in a particular kind of scientific research some decades ago, so that has defined my central purpose in life, and my various choices as to what to do are centered around that particular interest. So what exactly could I do to spite these socialists? I could decide to stop producing stuff, quit my day job, end my research, teaching and writing, and get a job flipping burgers. But that would be a huge sacrifice: I would be giving up something of vastly greater value, and getting what in return? Some miserable feeling of the type "at least they won't be enjoying the benefits of my productivity". "At least my income will be decimated and I won't be giving them much tax money". OTOH I really love my new Xterra, which you can't buy on a burgerman's wages. So for me, I just cannot see the upside of dropping out just because the next president will be more liberal that the last one.
it involves me presenting this as a front, and working under the table. basically welfare fraud...
Don't go there. We'll hunt you down mercilessly.

I also don't advise people to illegally evade taxes, but I cannot condemn any man who refuses to hand over his wallet to the highwayman. However, if you are considering going off the books, I don't see why your decision should depend on which idiot becomes president. Anyhow, dropping out of productive society and evading taxes are rather different things. If you're just planning on the latter, the most I can offer is a few links explaining the penalties for doing so. It's the former that I'm concerned about. What exactly will you be withholding; what will your mind be doing for the next 4-8 years?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That is a very good point.

Doesn't that answer itself?

Questions: what did you do from 2004 to 2008 to prevent an Obama from becoming president? And what are you going to do from 2008 to 2012 to prevent an Obama from being reelected?? I don't know what you did '04-'08, but it sounds like you plan on doing less and expecting more.

That's horrible thinking. There's isn't a whole lot of reason to believe that "dear leader" will be stepping down in four years. It sounds to the jaded ear like you're waiting for "the perfect moment" to start your business.

no it doesn't answer itself, because doing what i plan on doing, as a willing non-participant is like a pacifist being a photographer or medic in the war. i have no choice the way i see it. it's either to A: go get a 9-5 and contribute much more in taxes than i can stand, B: go start a business doomed to fail under the crushing economic bullshit the libs intend to impose on business owners, or C: become a drag on the system i despise. i can either let them destroy me, or i can do my part to destroy them.

if i choose C then i'm confronted with yet another set of options. A: get into politics to bring it down from that angle, B: go all nuts and psycho and get extremist about it and do something violent, or C: just walk away from it and not give them anything to take while taking from them.

well i'd never make it in politics due to a lot of reasons (past drug use, criminal history, propensity to curse like a drunken sailor), and i'm not a violent person so i could never flip out and get all radical like some of obama's buddies did back in the 60's and 70's.

so again...i'm left with C

what have i done from 2004-2008 to "stop" obama? not a damn thing. i worked my ass off every day 40-50 hours a week, i have put together a venue to start a business or two, i paid off my car, i paid off my credit cards, and i went on as usual hoping my fellow citizens wold never be stupid enough to vote for an admitted socialist.

yet here we are.

what i plan on doing from 08-12 if the worst happens? well i'd imagine i'd do everything i could to encourage my fellow like-minded americans to follow suit and to go on strike with me. might even make a website or print up some "on strike till 2012 stickers"...

not sure.

but i damn sure don't want to bust my ass to have my hard work and dedication leached off of for the next 4 years.

i'd love to start a business, but whats the point when i'm going to be punished for my success? the more i prosper and grow, the harder they begin to punch me in the face.

That's just as irrational an idea as Tim McVeigh had: You live in the greatest country that ever existed, how is it a good idea to try and destroy it?

If you disagree, please name a better one, and of course that's the end of the conversation since you can simply move there and live happily ever after.

If everyone reacted the way you are reacting during the time this place was a british colony, where would America and the world be now?

Is the country taking a step backward? Sure, but the situation is in no way hopeless: most of the people are not actually hurdling down the wrong path, they are just lost, and looking for a good idea.

thats a crock. i'm in no way advocating violence. i would never do what those radical nut jobs did. some taxes are necessary....police, fire, sanitation, other infrastructure...but to take from the ability of me to provide to the need of others is wrong.

so they can't take from me anymore, screw em. maybe if a lot of people took up this cause it would show the country that the democrat ways are wrong for america. and this could inspire a true conservative to rise up and take it all back.

they've already begun to attack those who speak out against them. the media has attacked joe the plumber, they attack sarah palin, they've even gone as far as to publish the names and addresses of people who vote against gay marriage in california. today they've announced that they kicked 3 news agencies off the tour because they take pro-republican stances on certain issues.

talk radio is finished...the necromancers are resurrecting the fairness doctrine as we speak.

whats left for those with a free mind? we can't listen to people who disagree with obama, the news is basically an obama campaign front, and people who do speak out against them get harassed and threatened.

so...back to my plan. sit back, hurt the system anyway i can, and have discussions like this for the next 4 years till people get the point. nothing will drive this point home more than when their precious little social programs are so underfunded...the only choice is to ruin the business that keep this country running.

either that or some sort of Wiemar republic/Zimbabwe type economy where poor people are millionaires and loafs of bread cost what a nice dinner costs now.

I agree with this and I'll add that I live in Britain which it's safe to say is worse off politically and economically than the United States; yet people still grow rich and happy here. The situation in reality is not as bad as the situation in Atlas Shrugged. America has beaten British imperialism, fascism and communism; all of which seemed to be unstoppable at the time.

Perhaps you should consider your problems from a psychological perspective: are you using Obama to rationalise your personal insecurities about starting a business?

nope. i could start the business tommorrow. but my business partner feels the same way. he's not risking any money during an obama economy. the fact is we hoped to make more than 250k per year. hell we'd like to do that per month. but why do it? why create yet another avenue for stealing peoples money? i'll just go right ahead and wait it out...not the whole time...it'll take probably a year before we start making big money, so i might wait till like early 2012 to start the business...by the time we get going obama will be gone. no way people will make this mistake twice. his plan is suicide. so i hope to be ready to go just after the 2012 election. if McCain wins i'll just co ahead and have it started within a few months. if not...there's no freaking way i'd set myself up for that kind of pain and suffering at the hands of a socialist with ties to domestic terrorists, racist seperatist religious leaders, criminals, and communists.

The proper attitude to take is that no one -- especially not some politician like Obama -- is going to stop you from achieving your goals. If you really have a passion for the work you do, than sacrificing four years of your working life would be unbearable torture. As long as you can still achieve a net gain you should continue working. If you're trying to be some martyr to an "Atlas Shrugged type" strike you will accomplish nothing. No one will notice and no one will care. Be selfish. Keep working.

nah. i'm looking to get out of the work i did all together. i'm bored with it, looking for something new. i'm looking for that passion. if it takes me 4 years to find it then all the better for me, and that much worse for the moochers, looters and leachers.

in my off time i'll most likely do construction work under assumed names under the table, or work for friends in their business the same way. can't tax that. i'd probaly work a few deals out on my own with a off the books retail type business selling goods to people i know.

i'll accomplish plenty. i'll be tax free and making money. all the while refusing to contribute to the corrupt system that will be further corrupted by the messiah.

Okay, that's good. But setting aside the basic roof-and-food questions, what it is that you do with your mind to survive? Chemical engineering, carpentry, stock trading, retail sales, Italian fooking, writing books... all of these come to mind as things you might do. You don't have to 'fess up in detail, but here's an example. Me, I got interested in a particular kind of scientific research some decades ago, so that has defined my central purpose in life, and my various choices as to what to do are centered around that particular interest. So what exactly could I do to spite these socialists? I could decide to stop producing stuff, quit my day job, end my research, teaching and writing, and get a job flipping burgers. But that would be a huge sacrifice: I would be giving up something of vastly greater value, and getting what in return? Some miserable feeling of the type "at least they won't be enjoying the benefits of my productivity". "At least my income will be decimated and I won't be giving them much tax money". OTOH I really love my new Xterra, which you can't buy on a burgerman's wages. So for me, I just cannot see the upside of dropping out just because the next president will be more liberal that the last one.

nono...i don't advocate flipping burgers. i mean quit it all. i'll continue with my life as is as far as i'm concerned, as far as obama is concerned, i'll be a happy little sheep getting turned down for job after job presenting myself as a huge worthless idiot not worthy of employment. extend my unemployment to it's fullest, get on welfare, maybe grab a little chunk of this nice little bailout floating around. hell maybe i should hurry up and buy a house i can't afford then cry foul when the bills start coming in.

in other words...behave like an obama supporter. like a fledgling bird awaiting momma to fly into the nest and puke some chewed up worms down my gullet for sustenance.

mmmmm, worms.

they don't need to know i'm hiding a nice rib-eye under my wing.

screw em.

Don't go there. We'll hunt you down mercilessly.

I also don't advise people to illegally evade taxes, but I cannot condemn any man who refuses to hand over his wallet to the highwayman. However, if you are considering going off the books, I don't see why your decision should depend on which idiot becomes president. Anyhow, dropping out of productive society and evading taxes are rather different things. If you're just planning on the latter, the most I can offer is a few links explaining the penalties for doing so. It's the former that I'm concerned about. What exactly will you be withholding; what will your mind be doing for the next 4-8 years?

well hell why not? i can only stand so much, obama is too much. i mean we are talking about breaking the law here. if i'm going to take that risk, then i can only justify doing so if things get much worse as they will no doubt be if obama gets elected.

if McCain wins, i'll gladly become the contributing member of society i was proud to be before i got laid off in july. if not, then whats the point? self immolation? no thanks...i'll just sit this one out. i'll catch the next elevator.

i'll just pretend to be retired, go fishing a lot, take up some hobbies, develop my business off the books...

i'd keep myself busy. but i'd keep myself from donating to the system i wish to fail.

look, i'm not the only one feeling this way. states are talking about succeeding, gun sales are up %30, the stock market is TANKING in fear of an obama presidency...i'm just following suit.

bye, see-ya, no monies for you.

i still don't see a reason not to do this. i mean i could just drop off the face of the earth and go live in the mountians somewhere, i could pull it off, i'm an eagle scout. but i'd much prefer the comforts of home, and the ability to hit up taco bell at 2 am when i get the munchies.

so back to plan C.

on strike till 2012.

Edited by ST1DinOH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
i still don't see a reason not to do this.
The main reason would be four years of being bored to death, with no accomplishments for the pain.

Businessmen work, thrive and enjoy life in India and China,... heck even in Vietnam. So, while it's fine to be terribly upset with the way things are and the way they might proceed, waiting 4 years when the environment we will have is way more free than at many times and place in history is simply a waste of time. By that token, how could anyone have worked in the 1930's with Roosevelt, in the 60's when one could be drafted into a futile war, in the 1970s with Nixon's price controls, or under Carter, for that matter.

It's easy to speak of simply going out and earning $250,000; but, it comes across as a figment of your imagination, with Obama getting the blame for your own lack of purpose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The main reason would be four years of being bored to death, with no accomplishments for the pain.

Businessmen work, thrive and enjoy life in India and China,... heck even in Vietnam. So, while it's fine to be terribly upset with the way things are and the way they might proceed, waiting 4 years when the environment we will have is way more free than at many times and place in history is simply a waste of time. By that token, how could anyone have worked in the 1930's with Roosevelt, in the 60's when one could be drafted into a futile war, in the 1970s with Nixon's price controls, or under Carter, for that matter.

It's easy to speak of simply going out and earning $250,000; but, it comes across as a figment of your imagination, with Obama getting the blame for your own lack of purpose.

the company i worked for brought in 250k a month on slow months. this was a small mom and pop contractor with a staff of around 30 people.

making 250 a year is nothing, especially with the type of business we are going to start. i'm not delusional enough to think that the day i start my website i'll be a millionaire. but the road gets much longer, rockier, and steeper with obama in office.

i've waited 30 years to start a business, i can wait 4 more till things are open to prosperity.

i can keep myself busy. might just go back to school on the taxpayer dime to deepen the wound, to draw more blood. why not, everyone else is doing it...if obama wins i won't have to worry about putting money in my gas tank, or paying my mortgage (according to that rather enlightened woman in the link above).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
the company i worked for brought in 250k a month on slow months. this was a small mom and pop contractor with a staff of around 30 people.
What has this got to do with anything? There are many individuals who bring in tons of money. It is obvious that people can do so, even in business that are mostly centered around themselves. That general fact has little relevance to whether you can do so.

making 250 a year is nothing, especially with the type of business we are going to start. i'm not delusional enough to think that the day i start my website i'll be a millionaire. but the road gets much longer, rockier, and steeper with obama in office.
It is possible that you have what it takes, but -- given what you've posted -- I doubt it. Of the people I've observed or read about who have gone on to run successful businesses, most of them just got on with it, and did not hang around blaming the world. That's not to say they were immediately successful -- many failed mutiple times; but, giving up was not "part of their DNA".

i've waited 30 years to start a business, i can wait 4 more till things are open to prosperity.
By the standard you're setting, chances are that you will live your whole life and die, having done nothing but pouted at the world. Please don't tell people you were inspired by Rand!

i can keep myself busy. might just go back to school on the taxpayer dime to deepen the wound, to draw more blood. why not, everyone else is doing it...if obama wins i won't have to worry about putting money in my gas tank, or paying my mortgage (according to that rather enlightened woman in the link above).
There are many reasons not to be a huge success in the conventional sense. In fact, there are many reasons to hold a low-paying job that has minimal demands on your brain. If one is writing the great American novel, or something like that, it's understandable. If one is learning, or planning., or gaining some useful experience, that's fine too. If you're not sure of what you really like to do, that's understandable as well. Even if one is depressed and feeling out of control and not up to a fight, it is understandable for some duration. There could be other reasons too. However, to say: "I can have a lot of fun and make a lot of money, but I'm going to put it off for 4 years because an extra 15% of that money is going to be taken by the government, and I'll have a few extra bureaucratic hurdles to jump through,...." sounds like BS at best and a defense-mechanism at worst... unless you're simply trolling here and having yourself some fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can understand your frustration, but really - why not start your business? Don't let the threat of the next President take away something you obviously value very highly (your own business). You will, if you are as successful as you say you will be, earn a net gain. Furthermore, if you find yourself over the "250k mark" and being overtaxed even more than normal, you could donate a sum of your income to the ARI and write off some of the tax to some extent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What has this got to do with anything? There are many individuals who bring in tons of money. It is obvious that people can do so, even in business that are mostly centered around themselves. That general fact has little relevance to whether you can do so.

It is possible that you have what it takes, but -- given what you've posted -- I doubt it. Of the people I've observed or read about who have gone on to run successful businesses, most of them just got on with it, and did not hang around blaming the world. That's not to say they were immediately successful -- many failed mutiple times; but, giving up was not "part of their DNA".

By the standard you're setting, chances are that you will live your whole life and die, having done nothing but pouted at the world. Please don't tell people you were inspired by Rand!

There are many reasons not to be a huge success in the conventional sense. In fact, there are many reasons to hold a low-paying job that has minimal demands on your brain. If one is writing the great American novel, or something like that, it's understandable. If one is learning, or planning., or gaining some useful experience, that's fine too. If you're not sure of what you really like to do, that's understandable as well. Even if one is depressed and feeling out of control and not up to a fight, it is understandable for some duration. There could be other reasons too. However, to say: "I can have a lot of fun and make a lot of money, but I'm going to put it off for 4 years because an extra 15% of that money is going to be taken by the government, and I'll have a few extra bureaucratic hurdles to jump through,...." sounds like BS at best and a defense-mechanism at worst... unless you're simply trolling here and having yourself some fun.

well i seem to have struck a nerve, and with an admin no less, i'm humbled.

no need to be insulting about it. i've been sucessfuill all my life. i've lived on my own since 17, never had problems. this is the first time i've ever been on any sort of assistance, and it's a dirty, slimy feeling.

i think you misunderstand the premise here.

i can, i want, and i will.

but i won't if obama wins, i just refuse to support such a vile excuse for a human being as president.

what makes you think this is how i've always been? this is a reaction, not a lifestyle or a path in life i want to walk down. i'm deciding to do so on a moral stance here. i can adjust my lifestyle to earn and prosper off the books. it's not necessary to be involved in the system to run a business. it can be done, who's to say i can't do it?

my point is i'm withdrawing from the tax system. i will not allow that douchebag to steal from me. i could have lived with McCain, but not him, anyone but him and his ilk.

hell bob barr, ralph nader, cynthia...uhhh...never mind she's a kook too.

point is why should i participate in the system the "right" way when the man running things is going to be doing his best to keep me down?

how is this not exactly what was done in atlas shrugged with the exception of existing in the system, in spite of the system?

i'm standing up for whats right, yet here you are, telling me that i should just swallow my pride and participate in the bullshit you pretend to preach against.

so which is it?

cake, or eat it too?

I can understand your frustration, but really - why not start your business? Don't let the threat of the next President take away something you obviously value very highly (your own business). You will, if you are as successful as you say you will be, earn a net gain. Furthermore, if you find yourself over the "250k mark" and being overtaxed even more than normal, you could donate a sum of your income to the ARI and write off some of the tax to some extent.

ohh lookie...someone who gets it.

i do want a business, it's something i've always dreamed of and aspired to. i've come so far, and worked so hard to get to this point (right on the edge of taking the leap to start something) only to have the timeing work out to the worst possible scenario imaginable for me. starting a business is a huge risk, it's not easy, i've been in on the ground floor of many startups and worked hard to help them be sucessfull. i'm ready to do this for myself instead of someone else. now here i am with an idea, some capital, some customer base, some research, and some knowledge/experience and i find myself up against this massive pile of shit thats still wet.

i'd rather wait till the rain washes it away than start digging into it with my bare hands.

instead i'll just find other means to be sucessfull and earn money but it'll be tax free.

in the mean time i'll be getting all the government assistance i can.

screw em, they aren't screwing me.

Edited by ST1DinOH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
how is this not exactly what was done in atlas shrugged with the exception of existing in the system, in spite of the system?

i'm standing up for whats right, yet here you are, telling me that i should just swallow my pride and participate in the bullshit you pretend to preach against.

For starters, John Galt was somebody. He was the one man with the ability to stop the motor of the world, and the strike was the greatest (not easiest) action that it was possible for him to undertake - action, that is, not hissy fit, not futile rebellion against a fact of the world he was powerless (in your case, not even attempting) to change. The strike was his challenge and he rose to it. It was personal. He wasn't throwing away his values just because someone made things harder for him; he was not just the one man willing to do what anyone else could have done. He stepped out of society because he saw what he could do and how it could be done, and he did it. He used his mind, not his ass, to further his own self-interest, and it actually mattered. So it's really totally dissimilar to what you're describing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
For starters, John Galt was somebody. He was the one man with the ability to stop the motor of the world, and the strike was the greatest (not easiest) action that it was possible for him to undertake - action, that is, not hissy fit, not futile rebellion against a fact of the world he was powerless (in your case, not even attempting) to change. The strike was his challenge and he rose to it. It was personal. He wasn't throwing away his values just because someone made things harder for him; he was not just the one man willing to do what anyone else could have done. He stepped out of society because he saw what he could do and how it could be done, and he did it. He used his mind, not his ass, to further his own self-interest, and it actually mattered. So it's really totally dissimilar to what you're describing.

cool, so you still don't get it.

i'm not planning on doing nothing, i'm planning on pretending to do nothing.

catch up please.

banking money for the next four years off the books, then going "legal" afterwards is not using one's ass when you consider that i won't just be relying on the government cheese and peanut butter for sustinance.

i'll be working, they just won't know about it.

McCain wins, i go to work and pay taxes like a good little boy.

Maobama wins i make money off the books, not paying taxes, and drain as much money from the system as i can.

either way i'm working, it''s just a difference of appearances and contributions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
cool, so you still don't get it.

i'm not planning on doing nothing, i'm planning on pretending to do nothing.

catch up please.

banking money for the next four years off the books, then going "legal" afterwards is not using one's ass when you consider that i won't just be relying on the government cheese and peanut butter for sustinance.

i'll be working, they just won't know about it.

McCain wins, i go to work and pay taxes like a good little boy.

Maobama wins i make money off the books, not paying taxes, and drain as much money from the system as i can.

either way i'm working, it''s just a difference of appearances and contributions.

First of all, why do you think McCain is going to be so much better than Obama? Second of all, What makes you think that Obama is going to be gone in four years? Most likely it will be 8 years. And based on our direction, the president after Obama may be a lot worse. Are you going to sacrifice a possible 20 years or more of your life?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You sound like you're being overemotional about Obama. What's the difference, really, between a McCain presidency and an Obama presidency? Of course, nobody knows for sure, but if we take them at their word, it's a couple of percent of MARGINAL tax on income OVER $250,000 (or whatever the number). Let's say Obama's marginal tax rate (on amounts over $250K) is 5% more than McCain's, and you make $300,000. That's an extra $2500 a year in income tax. Is that a big enough deal to Go Galt? As another poster said, you might just want to think about working it so that your income doesn't go into the highest bracket. Donate to ARI or the charity of your choice instead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is very little of what you have said that stands to reason. Your plan is absurd. The entire premise is wrong, because there is no fundamental or ideological difference between an Obama administration and a McCain administration. Therefore, since this is demonstrably the case, there will not be any difference in practice.

You're a right-wing religious nutjob trolling to find some sympathy. Make no mistake about it, Sarah Palin is a total idiot; John McCain is a total idiot; Newt Gingrich is a total idiot; Ronald Regan is a total idiot; Michael Savage is a total idiot; Bill O'Reilly is a total idiot. Having a "conservative" in the White House means nothing. Get outta here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's what just makes no sense to me.

His username is ST1DinOH. Stoned in Ohio. I'm thinking his argument may be coming from an under-the-influence perspective.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
because there is no fundamental or ideological difference between an Obama administration and a McCain administration. Therefore, since this is demonstrably the case, there will not be any difference in practice.

This is not the first time you have said this. It is simply not factual.

DEFENCE:

Obama: "I will cut investments in unproven missile defense systems," "I will not weaponize space. I will slow our development of future combat systems. I will institute an independent defense priorities board to ensure that the Quadrennial Review is not used to justify unnecessary defense spending."

My goal is a "world without nuclear weapons." To seek that goal, "I will not develop nuclear weapons," he said. "I will seek a global ban on the production of fissile material. And I will negotiate with Russia to take our ICBMs off hair-trigger alert, and to achieve deep cuts in our nuclear arsenal."

In July, when Iran conducted tests of missiles capable of reaching Israel, Obama called for "aggressive diplomacy" and said Iran "must suffer threats of economic sanctions with direct diplomacy opening up channels of communication so we avoid provocation, but we give strong incentives for the Iranians to change their behavior."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

McCain:

John McCain said Iran's tests showed that we need effective missile defense "now and in the future," including the planned missile defense sites in the Czech Republic and Poland. Rather than unilateral disarmament, McCain has also said: "We must continue to deploy a safe and reliable nuclear deterrent, robust missile defenses and superior conventional forces that are capable of defending ourselves and our allies."

-----------------

How is that the same?

Edited by ~Sophia~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There is very little of what you have said that stands to reason. Your plan is absurd. The entire premise is wrong, because there is no fundamental or ideological difference between an Obama administration and a McCain administration. Therefore, since this is demonstrably the case, there will not be any difference in practice.

You're a right-wing religious nutjob trolling to find some sympathy. Make no mistake about it, Sarah Palin is a total idiot; John McCain is a total idiot; Newt Gingrich is a total idiot; Ronald Regan is a total idiot; Michael Savage is a total idiot; Bill O'Reilly is a total idiot. Having a "conservative" in the White House means nothing. Get outta here.

I really don't get "right wing troll" from his posts. He sounds seriously frustrated and I doubt any on this board are not in a similar emotional situation to him regarding the coming election. Both are in support of this multi-trillion dollar bank robbery as well as a host of new regulations, taxes, and social programs. For the record, I disagree with him, finding both candidates so morally repugnant that I plan on abstaining from voting on the presidential race. If this is what both parties have to offer then I consider it time for a vote of no confidence in the system.

That said, Obama is clearly the most vile man to ever seek this office. He rejects the concept of negative rights,and advocates socialism not in the traditional "creeping socialism" way, but outright, in pure unapologetic Marxist terminology. He is utilizing credit card fraud to fund his campaign for Christ sakes. Some of his best friends and advisers are communist terrorists, racist preachers, and the men primarily responsible for the bank robbery(fannie mae and fredie mac heads). More recently, his devoted, jack booted followers(including police and other officials) have taken it upon themselves to insure that his version of truth is the only one not prosecuted. And to top it off he has a slow brain that doesn't seem to allow him to function without a teleprompter. That someone can consider him at all and not tremble in fear about what he portends, I find unbelievable.

The very fact that no one is even pretending at capitalism to get elected is a very bad sign, if it can be taken as an indicator of Americans general sense of life. I do run my own business and view the next four years under his rule as a reason, maybe not to stop, but certainly to make changes(To begin, I'll stock up on Vaseline). The cost of this man does not begin and end with a few extra bucks paid by those making over 250K. Even if it was true that he could just raise the taxes on "rich" folks, he also plans on raising capital gains to 38% from 15%. Any guesses about the likely effects on the stock market and real estate sales? Or maybe his plan to raise corporate income tax in a globalized economy on top of increased regulation. Wanna make bets on how employment and wages will increase as a result? If he gets in, we will likely have a super majority of democrats in congress compounded by a wildly popular communist president with a thirst for power.

To me it sounds a lot like the 1930's. The major difference being that FDR layered his socialism on a fairly free country. BHO will be layering his on the leftovers from FDR and every statist since. I think Newtons comment about standing on the shoulders of giants has a darker side. Stalin can stand on the shoulders of Lenin in precisely the same way and with the same net effect, albeit in a slightly different direction then enlightenment.

A part of me hopes that he does pass everything he claims to want just so I can hear his fervent supporters say, "this isn't what I meant." In all probability, he won't though. Just enough to make us and our children a little more comfortable with being owned, as each generation seems to be. I doubt we'll boil alive in the next four year, so I'm not jumping out, but based on the facts I see about this guy, I can't really fault the frog that does.

So anyway, I say, cut this guy a break. He might be more heat sensitive then us, but he's not delusional when he says that we're in the pot that's heating up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
First of all, why do you think McCain is going to be so much better than Obama? Second of all, What makes you think that Obama is going to be gone in four years? Most likely it will be 8 years. And based on our direction, the president after Obama may be a lot worse. Are you going to sacrifice a possible 20 years or more of your life?

read before you post

McCain = no knife

Obama = a shit ton of anchors

You sound like you're being overemotional about Obama. What's the difference, really, between a McCain presidency and an Obama presidency? Of course, nobody knows for sure, but if we take them at their word, it's a couple of percent of MARGINAL tax on income OVER $250,000 (or whatever the number). Let's say Obama's marginal tax rate (on amounts over $250K) is 5% more than McCain's, and you make $300,000. That's an extra $2500 a year in income tax. Is that a big enough deal to Go Galt? As another poster said, you might just want to think about working it so that your income doesn't go into the highest bracket. Donate to ARI or the charity of your choice instead.

see above, and see the constitution while you are off seeing things..

i f*cking hate McCain, but who's the better option? bob barr? like he stands a fricken chance. show me a third party who can can stand for something rational and stand a chance of winning the election.

alrighty then, i'm voting McCain.

as i've alreay said...i don't think McCain has the knife, but he's not loaded down with anchors. i'd rather vote for the RINO than the socialist nut job.

There is very little of what you have said that stands to reason. Your plan is absurd. The entire premise is wrong, because there is no fundamental or ideological difference between an Obama administration and a McCain administration. Therefore, since this is demonstrably the case, there will not be any difference in practice.

You're a right-wing religious nutjob trolling to find some sympathy. Make no mistake about it, Sarah Palin is a total idiot; John McCain is a total idiot; Newt Gingrich is a total idiot; Ronald Regan is a total idiot; Michael Savage is a total idiot; Bill O'Reilly is a total idiot. Having a "conservative" in the White House means nothing. Get outta here.

blah blah blah therefore blah blah blah.

blow it out your ass.

there is a significant difference between McStain and Maobama. i'm voting for the least socialist one of the two.

thanks for the flames there jacktard but you don't know facts. i'm the furthest from a "religious nut job" you'll ever meet and besides your mom, i don't troll for shit. i could care less about palin (other than she's hot and i'd put it in her), McCain, gingrich (lolwut?), savage, o'rieilly, ect...

but back the hell off regan.

he may have been backwards on pot but he had better ideals than any politician than i've seen in my lifetime. look at your post, look at your flames...what the hell is your problem. if i'm this supposed troll you speak of then why the F*CK are you feeding me? stop being such a drama whore and crawl back in your hole, nobody cares what you think.

now on to more worthwhile posts.

But why then? Why ever? That's what just makes no sense to me.

it's not a partisan line, it's just a line i'm tired of being pushed over.

what choice do we have?

what real choice do we have?

should i hang my hat on some obscure third party candidate? no thanks, rather not shit on my ballot in spite of it all.

i can live with the RINO's politics, because it'll be a republican in the office and libs running everything else. nothing will be acomplished, and thats a good thing for all of us. less laws passed = less infringements on our freedoms and liberty.

maobama gets the office and it's unchecked power and control.

no thanks, bye bye.

His username is ST1DinOH. Stoned in Ohio. I'm thinking his argument may be coming from an under-the-influence perspective.

oh yeah i smoke a little pot on the weekends...i must not know anything right. all hail you the moral superior who drinks his coffee, inhales his tobacco and takes his pills.

hypocrite

a little sativa goes a long way my sheltered brother. why wander around with so much bias and ignorance?

"and having never smoked marijuana i can honestly say it has nothing good to offer society"

nice, i truly value your opinion. tell us more.

This is not the first time you have said this. It is simply not factual.

DEFENCE:

Obama: "I will cut investments in unproven missile defense systems," "I will not weaponize space. I will slow our development of future combat systems. I will institute an independent defense priorities board to ensure that the Quadrennial Review is not used to justify unnecessary defense spending."

My goal is a "world without nuclear weapons." To seek that goal, "I will not develop nuclear weapons," he said. "I will seek a global ban on the production of fissile material. And I will negotiate with Russia to take our ICBMs off hair-trigger alert, and to achieve deep cuts in our nuclear arsenal."

In July, when Iran conducted tests of missiles capable of reaching Israel, Obama called for "aggressive diplomacy" and said Iran "must suffer threats of economic sanctions with direct diplomacy opening up channels of communication so we avoid provocation, but we give strong incentives for the Iranians to change their behavior."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

McCain:

John McCain said Iran's tests showed that we need effective missile defense "now and in the future," including the planned missile defense sites in the Czech Republic and Poland. Rather than unilateral disarmament, McCain has also said: "We must continue to deploy a safe and reliable nuclear deterrent, robust missile defenses and superior conventional forces that are capable of defending ourselves and our allies."

-----------------

How is that the same?

an angel from the wings.

the lesser of two evils is still better than the purest evil before me.

must mean i believe the earth is 4000 years old and noahs ark was big enough to hold hundreds of thousands of species...right wing nut job and all.

this thread is epic. i've been flamed by an admin, got drama whores calling me a religious nut job even though i find it all laughable, and then in swoops the voice of reason.

quite the development.

much less than half of you even understand the premise here. yet you all continue to ramble. i'm a lib, i'm a religious nut job, i'm a lazy individualist pothead.

congratulations, you all fail.

with glorious exceptions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
oh yeah i smoke a little pot on the weekends...i must not know anything right.

That's not true, you obviously know how to smoke weed.

all hail you the moral superior who drinks his coffee, inhales his tobacco and takes his pills.

Now that's funny. I had reason to assume you smoked based on your nick, but you've based the above assumptions on....nothing. Factually speaking, I don't drink coffee or anything with caffeine (I have a caffeine addiction and I suffer health-wise when I consume it). I haven't smoked a cigarette since I was about 14, and the only pills I take are over the counter headache/cold medicine or whatever my doc prescribes. I haven't smoked marijuana since I was 19, which I DID smoke and it did absolutely nothing for me. You should have completed your uninformed list with alcohol, which I haven't consumed in over 10 years because of my experience with and around alcohol and alcoholics. 3 strikes, your out.

The numerous assumptions you made in several sentences about me clearly indicates that your ability to evaluate reality is questionable.

You came to the wrong place to troll.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...