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Hardcore (Real Emo, and Post-hardcore)

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Does anyone here listen to any real hardcore? When I mean real hardcore I mean the stuff that is actually hardcore and not what most people would describe to be emo, post-hardcore, etc.

Not Emo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWHf_vYZzQ8...feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5nw1-_5-Vk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kkbTNmg40c

Real Hardcore:

Post-Hardcore

Emo

http://www.myspace.com/streetsmartcyclist

Screamo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPx5HkCZDzY (not-so-good quality)

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I listen to mostly 70s/80s LA Hardcore, with some mixed in East Coast bands like Minor Threat.}

I don't like Emo, though. None of it.

Do you listen to any Husker Du? Zen Arcade is probably on my list of my top ten albums.

Edited by Focus
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HQIcdGg63I...&playnext=1

\\\\\\\"Stop my breathing and slit my throat, I must be EMO\\\\\\\"

Cap'n Jazz

cap

You know, I would have thought that on a forum that advocates individualism and reason, people would advocate individualism and reason when it comes to musical stereotypes.

Your's has been proven wrong and if you even bothered to listen to the songs I posted, you would notice why. There really is no difference between hardcore and most emo because emo is really just a term for hardcore influenced by DC Hardcore.

Edited by Focus
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I can't stand what they call Screamo or Hardcore. It hurts my ears to much. I stick to listening to West coast Jazz and Steely Dan. Also, I find the subculture of "Emo" to be a combination of disgusting, nihilistic, whinny, attention seeking brats. Not that I'm trying to make fun of anybody who is Emo, but I use to be around those people in high school. Couldn't stand them then, can't stand them now.

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Eck, screamo and most hardcore nowadays is gross, but I really do like the 70s stuff.

As for Emo people, maybe they'd have a better rep if most of them weren't whiney and self-destructive twits.

I don't associate myself with the punk culture because it's filled with nihilists and commies. I enjoy a lot of the music, but the culture itself stinks.

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Eck, screamo and most hardcore nowadays is gross, but I really do like the 70s stuff.

As for Emo people, maybe they'd have a better rep if most of them weren't whiney and self-destructive twits.

I don't associate myself with the punk culture because it's filled with nihilists and commies. I enjoy a lot of the music, but the culture itself stinks.

Emo people have nothing to do with real emo music. They listen MCR and Fall Out Boy. Or they listen to repulsive bands like Alesana or Underoath. Real emo is much more related to the hardcore punk subculture. Most of the lyrics are about stupid socialist political rants anyways, not about cutting yourself.

It would be stupid and collectivist-like to not like a certain music because of the way the media generally perceives it. Also lyrics =/= music so to not like music because of the lyrics is really dumb.

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Emo and hardcore are not the same thing, even in the "underground" emo scene. Emo is about conveying a certain kind of emotion, normally a melancholy one. You can't just apply it to hardcore.

This is the hardcore I listen to

FEAR

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcSbqaIK_iA

S.O.A

Black Flag

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHk7zahvDFI

Dead Kennedys

I'm sure you've heard of and listened to most of these bands. These are bands I listen to normally when I am angry, or want to blow steam off. Emo music is normally about wallowing in one's sadness.

Still, I'm not a big hardcore guy anyway. In the arena of punk, I prefer Pop Punk/Ramones style punk more than anything.

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Emo and hardcore are not the same thing, even in the "underground" emo scene. Emo is about conveying a certain kind of emotion, normally a melancholy one. You can't just apply it to hardcore.

This is the hardcore I listen to

FEAR

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcSbqaIK_iA

S.O.A

Black Flag

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHk7zahvDFI

Dead Kennedys

I'm sure you've heard of and listened to most of these bands. These are bands I listen to normally when I am angry, or want to blow steam off. Emo music is normally about wallowing in one's sadness.

Still, I'm not a big hardcore guy anyway. In the arena of punk, I prefer Pop Punk/Ramones style punk more than anything.

Emo is short for Emotive Hardcore. All music has emotion. Therefore, the "emotive" in emotive hardcore is useless and a waste of space. That makes it hardcore. I mean look at what is called, "happy hardcore." You would say, "well it isn't really relating to this certain emotion so..." This, however, would make no sense because the first emo band sounds no different then most hardcore bands:

Rites of Spring

Emo is just a term for bands influenced by DC hardcore. A couple hands hijacked the genre and turned it into a fashion show. Now everyone says it is bad because it is people that are whining. The thing is, if you have a problem with that, then you must have a problem with blues, a ton of jazz, a lot of punk that isn't considered emo (i.e. Joy Division), and post-rock.

For future reference, I like something in every musical genre I can find. As long as I can feel passion or soul in it, I like it. Hence, why bands like Dream Theater I hate, even though they are pretty talented when it comes to playing instruments.

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Fugazi is generally considered the fathers of what we now call emo. That, as you point, is basically just hardcore and didn't need a sub-category. There were too many of those in the early days of punk. Punk and hardcore were the only real necessary disctinctions

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Fugazi is generally considered the fathers of what we now call emo. That, as you point, is basically just hardcore and didn't need a sub-category. There were too many of those in the early days of punk. Punk and hardcore were the only real necessary disctinctions

I would somewhat agree, but Fugazi, from what I have heard has been considered post-hardcore. Though I don't listen to them much, nor do I talk about them with people much. Still a pretty sweet band.

Anyways, I would agree that Punk and Hardcore are the only distinctions you need. The thing is that a lot of people will say that emo is too different from hardcore to be just termed hardcore. Emo itself has waves. The first wave is pretty much just hardcore. The second wave was that same hardcore, but it was influenced by post-rock bands like Mogwai. The newer stuff is mostly just second wave stuff and some new stuff that we haven't heard before. So, emo does differ from hardcore, but if you say you dislike all emo then you would have to say you dislike most hardcore because the earlier stuff was pretty much pure hardcore.

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Did you actually watch the video? Did you see who was being made fun of? Or did you just go off after making assumptions? None of the bands you posted were the targets of I Must Be Emo. It's about wussy kids from the burbs who like to pretend they have real problems. Seriously, dude, chill out.

For the record, I do prefer the punk or even goth sound to emo. But I'm not heavily into/invested in any of those genres. Someone further down the thread had some rough things to say about punks...I'm not sure that's justified, there's some thoughtfulness to the punk scene depending on what you listen to. I'm a fan of The Clash and things of that nature. Early Pretenders also had somewhat of a punk influence.

You know, I would have thought that on a forum that advocates individualism and reason, people would advocate individualism and reason when it comes to musical stereotypes.

Your's has been proven wrong and if you even bothered to listen to the songs I posted, you would notice why. There really is no difference between hardcore and most emo because emo is really just a term for hardcore influenced by DC Hardcore.

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Right now I really like a lot of the European hardcore/emo bands like Belle Epoque, Daitro, Sed non Satiata, Mihai Edrisch.

I like anything from the late 80s Dischord label, and the old-school emo of the early 90s; bands like Moss Icon, Indian Summer, Navio Forge, etc.

I think some of the best musicians around today play in this style, in bands like Off Minor, Circle Takes the Square, Funeral Diner, Envy, etc.

I even like the chaotic stuff like Orchid and Pg 99, and the more laid back Midwest emo.

And of course, the 'angular' post-hardcore stuff like Drive Like Jehu, At the Drive In, Bear vs Shark..

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What do you mean by "music" here? Are you referring to the genre, the instrument playing or a song?

Music is made up of sounds. Lyrics are not sounds. They are words. If I lay poetry down on a table in front of you, does it make any sound? No.

Lyrics are not music. When you are paying attention to music, that means you are paying attention to sounds, not trying to make out the words of the vocalist. In some genres like, hip-hop and grime, lyrics are pretty much the most important factor of the song and therefore you are supposed to listen to the lyrics more than the music. In punk music, the main focus is not the lyrics. Especially not in emo. If you want to worry about the lyrics, there are many web sites where you will find them. If you want to listen to music, then pay attention to the sounds.

I even like the chaotic stuff like Orchid and Pg 99, and the more laid back Midwest emo.

Do you listen to any Neil Perry?

Edited by Focus
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In punk music, the main focus is not the lyrics. Especially not in emo. If you want to worry about the lyrics, there are many web sites where you will find them. If you want to listen to music, then pay attention to the sounds.

I think what an individual gets from a song (the music and the lyrics) is up to the individual, regardless of the style. Some folks are concerned with both aspects of a song and they do not let other people determine for them which aspects of songs are important. So if the collectivist thinking listeners of punk music tell me the lyrics are not important, I'm probably going to be my own judge on that. I'm not concerned so much with what 'the scene' tells me I should value in the songs I listen to. They don't 'own' the style and they certainly don't own my mind.

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I think what an individual gets from a song (the music and the lyrics) is up to the individual, regardless of the style. Some folks are concerned with both aspects of a song and they do not let other people determine for them which aspects of songs are important. So if the collectivist thinking listeners of punk music tell me the lyrics are not important, I'm probably going to be my own judge on that. I'm not concerned so much with what 'the scene' tells me I should value in the songs I listen to. They don't 'own' the style and they certainly don't own my mind.

I am fine with that. I am just telling you how most people look at it. It is kind of like the English language. Most people use the word, "idiot" to mean "a foolish or stupid person" (as said by M-W). You can go ahead believing that it is a way to address those of good character, but it won't get you anywhere.

My main point of my previous post was to differentiate lyrics and music and why someone can't say they are listening to the music if all they do is interpret the lyrics.

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I really have to disagree with you on this, man. To me the lyrics are tremendously important and a huge part of the song. I have a hard time enjoying a song if the lyrics aren't good or don't fit somehow with the rest of the song. Instrumentals are cool and all but I will never enjoy them as much as songs with lyrics. To say that the lyrics aren't part of the music is like saying you don't need a strong rhythm part or a good melody. The way you posit it is not representative of how I personally listen to music. When I put on the songs I like for a given mood, because I'm feeling or want to evoke that mood, that really can't be done as well without the lyrics. When I put on some Breaking Benjamin, for instance, I want that intensity, and sure the music is intense but it would never get the effect without the words. That's all there is to it.

Music is made up of sounds. Lyrics are not sounds. They are words. If I lay poetry down on a table in front of you, does it make any sound? No.

Lyrics are not music. When you are paying attention to music, that means you are paying attention to sounds, not trying to make out the words of the vocalist. In some genres like, hip-hop and grime, lyrics are pretty much the most important factor of the song and therefore you are supposed to listen to the lyrics more than the music. In punk music, the main focus is not the lyrics. Especially not in emo. If you want to worry about the lyrics, there are many web sites where you will find them. If you want to listen to music, then pay attention to the sounds.

Do you listen to any Neil Perry?

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I really have to disagree with you on this, man. To me the lyrics are tremendously important and a huge part of the song. I have a hard time enjoying a song if the lyrics aren't good or don't fit somehow with the rest of the song. Instrumentals are cool and all but I will never enjoy them as much as songs with lyrics. To say that the lyrics aren't part of the music is like saying you don't need a strong rhythm part or a good melody. The way you posit it is not representative of how I personally listen to music. When I put on the songs I like for a given mood, because I'm feeling or want to evoke that mood, that really can't be done as well without the lyrics. When I put on some Breaking Benjamin, for instance, I want that intensity, and sure the music is intense but it would never get the effect without the words. That's all there is to it.

I am not saying lyrics are dumb or anything like that. I am just arguing that music and lyrics are different things. You can listen to the music and the lyrics if you want to. Personally I listen to the music, then listen to the lyrics. The only exception is rap and grime, where I treat it more like poetry with background music. No matter how lyrics make you feel lyrics are not part of the music. They are not music. They are separate things. They can be appreciated at the same time, I guess, but that doesn't mean they are one.

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My main point of my previous post was to differentiate lyrics and music and why someone can't say they are listening to the music if all they do is interpret the lyrics.

Well I think the issue is more likely semantic. I'll grant that perhaps people might need to be more specific, but I think that when someone says they don't like someone's music because of the lyrics, they are probably referring to the song or songs as a whole, not simply the instrumental part. For many people the content of the whole song, music and lyrics, is important, not just one part or the other.

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To me, a song is (or ought to be) a single unit, a composition. The lyrics are an integral part of that composition, if they're there, just like a bassline or a catchy lick. I look for a unified whole.

I am not saying lyrics are dumb or anything like that. I am just arguing that music and lyrics are different things. You can listen to the music and the lyrics if you want to. Personally I listen to the music, then listen to the lyrics. The only exception is rap and grime, where I treat it more like poetry with background music. No matter how lyrics make you feel lyrics are not part of the music. They are not music. They are separate things. They can be appreciated at the same time, I guess, but that doesn't mean they are one.
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