Shocked into Free Will

[brianleepainter]

Surgeon and author, Dr. Sherwin Nuland, tells of his personal account of electroshock therapy

and how it saved his life, "shocking" him out of his depressive state:

My History of Electroshock Therapy

From what I've inferred from the video, Dr. Nuland knew the cause of his depression which was

caused in part from a poor childhood and horrible marriage, yet even with psychotherapy he

continued into depression. I find it to be disturbing that the Psychiatric team assigned to him

decided that the only "cure" to this labeled "illness" was either a frontal lobotomy or a less

dangerous procedure, electroshock therapy.

Dr. Nuland recalls that his depression was so sever that a physical shock to his brain was required

to allow him to act in free will and blow the mental depression away.

Now, I'm certainly glad that Dr.Nuland's electroshock therapy helped to turn his life around, and that

the freedom for individuals to choose this procedure is available to those who think it is suiting. Certainly

if you find the medication to be helpful, or the lobotomy to be useful then you have the choice to go for it

and pursue your happiness in life.

The thing I find unsettling is that an organ was targeted in the act of helping someone's mind. It almost

seems like a Psychiatrist can target an exact coordinate of an organ to correspond with the mind itself.

Perhaps only more time and research is required to treat mental "diseases" through physical procedures,

or so it seems.

[Grames]

So you find unsettling the idea that the mind is a physical process?

[brianleepainter]

A physical process? Unsettling to me only so much as that this "physical process" allows for a physical

means of resolution to the claimed "disease" of the individual.

[Dante]

A physical process? Unsettling to me only so much as that this "physical process" allows for a physical

means of resolution to the claimed "disease" of the individual.

Depression doesn't have to be a disease in order to be treated on a physical basis. Ever heard of antidepressants? The mind depends on the brain for its existence and proper functioning, and some mental problems can be addressed with physical drugs or procedures.

[brian0918]

It almost seems like a Psychiatrist can target an exact coordinate of an organ to correspond with the mind itself.

Zapping a specific part of the brain to cure depression doesn't imply that the "mind" is located at that point - only that that part is what prevented the mind from functioning properly, due to some physical issue. The mind doesn't exist anywhere in the brain - it is an emergent faculty that is created by the combined actions and interactions of the different parts of the brain.

Perhaps only more time and research is required to treat mental "diseases" through physical procedures,

or so it seems.

There is no split between the mental and the physical - ie, there is no mind-body dichotomy. The mind is the result of the brain's physical actions. Manipulating the physical (in the brain) will cause changes to the mental.

Edited May 23, 2010 by brian0918

[brianleepainter]

The mind depends on the brain for its existence and proper functioning, and some mental problems can be addressed with physical drugs or procedures.

Certainly you cannot speak of the mind without first talking about the context of the brain. There is no point in helping someone that has a brain without a mind; a corpse.

Depression doesn't have to be a disease in order to be treated on a physical basis. Ever heard of antidepressants?

Yes, actually I've heard of and had experience with anti-depressants. These things, anti-depressants, are an Up. Prozac is like

an amphetamine which makes a person feel good. These things that makes someone feel good are psycho-energizers. Somebody can energize

a depressed individual also with an electrode to the brain, in the case of Dr.Nuland. Or, if there is a freezer in a nearby home, a multi-use tool

can also be used to do the trick. Kinda like what Freeman pioneered.

I think if the person has been "awakened" from their state of sloth from a physical drug or procedure they then have to use their own free will

and be wiling to cooperate and sustain their focus in order to lessen and solve the depression's cause. Otherwise, if the medication,procedure, or whatever

that targets the organ in an attempt to "cure" the problem is not continued(pills,periodic shocks,nerve severances) the problem will persist.

The mind is the result of the brain's physical actions. Manipulating the physical (in the brain) will cause changes to the mental.

Does that mean that if a change in mental behavior occurs, such as solving depression or a victory over anxiety that this can be traced back

to a change in the physical(the brain?)I think it is important to note that a disease of the brain will not equate to an "illness" of the mind.

[Grames]

Does that mean that if a change in mental behavior occurs, such as solving depression or a victory over anxiety that this can be traced back

to a change in the physical(the brain?)

Yes. Even looking at a rose or adding two numbers has a corresponding physical change in the brain. The principle encompasses normal function as well as malfunctions and diseases.

[brianleepainter]

Yes. Even looking at a rose or adding two numbers has a corresponding physical change in the brain. The principle encompasses normal function as well as malfunctions and diseases.

So, do some mental behaviors leave a sign such as a lesion on the brain that can be taken to a pathology lab,

or a chemical imbalance that can be the subject of a blood test? Or, does this change show up as an electric pulse in the active area

of the brain that can be observed with an MRI or other instrument?

Edited May 27, 2010 by brianleepainter

[Grames]

So, do some mental behaviors leave a sign such as a lesion on the brain that can be taken to a pathology lab,

or a chemical imbalance that can be the subject of a blood test? Or, does this change show up as an electric pulse in the active area

of the brain that can be observed with an MRI or other instrument?

A mental behavior such as recognizing a lion is about to pounce on you can cause the release of adrenalin, which can found in the blood. There would also be excited neurons in several areas of the brain, the visual perceptual area that recognizes the animal, the language area that names the animal "that's a lion", the memory function seems to operate at a higher rate making it seem as though time slows down, and who knows what else. Less emotionally exciting experiences just manifest the neural activity and not so much of the blood and body changes.

Any pleasurable activity such as listening to a favorite bit of music or being productive at work can cause to brain to release serotonin. When it is time to sleep, the brain releases melatonin.

I don't know that it is possible for mere thinking to damage the brain so as to produce a lesion.