Popular Post JMeganSnow Posted November 21, 2015 Popular Post Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Jenni: I currently have no friends at all and would love to have people in my life (my real, physical, real-world life) that I can share and discuss my values (objectivism and capitalism) with. What can I do to find such friends in real life? I live on the east side of Indianapolis. Closely related: I have been studying economics on my own and have been thinking I should major in it since I enjoy learning about it so much and it might put me in touch with other pro-capitalist people. On the other hand, given the schools that dominate the econ departments today, I'm thinking it might be a mistake to do that. --Chris These aren't really philosophical questions per se, so the only real way to go about answering them is to use my own past experience with life. So the answers are probably going to seem a bit unscientific. In essence, the answer to the first question is that if you want to meet people, you need to go where the people are. I don't mean move--I live in Ohio myself, and I know for a fact that there are a fair number of Objectivists and/or fellow travelers in the local area. Some I've even met via this forum. There usually aren't enough in a small geographical area to form an actual "club", and for friendship it's really not enough that you both be interested in Objectivism or Capitalism, odd as that may sound. Friendships generally form around a shared interest in DOING things, not just talking about them. So you need to go to where people are doing things together. This has the added benefit that if you don't hit it off with anyone particularly well, hey, at least you got to enjoy the activity. Almost every group of people that is enthusiastic about an activity is looking for more people to join them, so it's pretty easy to find the equivalent of a "beginner's class" for just about anything, if you just look. While it's great to have people around who agree with you on politics and philosophy, I think you'll find that for genuine friendship and companionship this isn't really all that necessary (or sufficient, for that matter). I actually know plenty of people that I agree very strongly with on many issues, yet I cannot STAND them, personally. I know many people that I disagree with on a large number of issues, but we're quite close. And every possible degree of shading in between. I've found in my own life that it's not so much specific shared values that drive the closeness of a relationship (although that's usually how the relationship gets started and how you maintain it, by sharing activities), but a similar APPROACH to those values. Pretty much all the things that get lumped under the vague heading of "personality" or "sense of life". So, really, that's it--you'll have more success with meeting people if you . . . go out and meet people. Yeah, it's a tautology. But it really does work. As for your economics studies . . . I am going to give you what is probably going to sound like completely insane advice. It is not the advice that pretty much anyone else will give you regarding college, but this is based on some HORRIBLE experiences of my own and those of many of my friends, so LISTEN UP. DO NOT pick your major in college based on what you enjoy learning/reading about. If you don't have a particular educational goal in mind re: college, DON'T GO AT ALL. Get a job, ANY job, instead, and cultivate your JOB SKILLS. Meet people who are successful in their positions and cultivate your relationship with them. I don't mean be a suckup. I mean, talk to them, learn what they know that lets them do what they do, study their personal behavior. It doesn't hurt to be friendly because they may be able to give you a line on an opportunity or three, but don't depend on that. Once you have some kind of notion of what you do and don't want to do CAREER-wise, THEN it's time to start looking at educational opportunities, and it's very important to keep in mind that what you are making here is a FINANCIAL INVESTMENT. You are looking to get value out of this, and most college courses are INSANELY overpriced at present. Don't disdain vocational training or local community colleges--the value they offer for the amount of money you have to spend is often much, much better than anything else you'll find. Don't spend more money than you have to and pay cash if you can. If you can manage to live with your parents or a roommate or otherwise save money on housing and other living expenses, do so. You're not being a "parasite", you are building your future. The more money you can save in the beginning, the better off you will be later on. Borrowing money at this stage in your life is like putting an anchor on a leaky rowboat. You're not even all that sure you can float your own weight, much less that great heavy mass. Ultimately my educational advice is that if you're going to be spending money on it, you need to be absolutely as cold-blooded as Midas Mulligan in how you treat the transaction. Be a total hardass and DEMAND your money's worth, because this stuff is EXPENSIVE. Aside from a house, a college education is probably the most expensive single thing you'll ever buy in your life (and maybe even MORE expensive than that house, in some cases). Would you buy a house based on liking the looks of it? No. Would you buy a car because it has a nice paint job? Heck no. Don't stumble into an educational decision. And don't listen to the educational advisors who insist that "you can change majors later". Sure, you can, but remember that their job is to SELL YOU COLLEGE. Treat them like what they are, salespeople, and question whether you need what they're selling AT ALL. Then be prepared to walk away from that deal if you aren't sure what you want or aren't getting it. You will save yourself SO much grief later on in life. And also, once you're firm in your mind about what you want to get out of college, you will have the motivation you need to sweat it out even if the program is filled with poncy twits. So, if the thought of poncy twits in your program is worrying you, that's a good sign that it's not something you want to plunge into right now. You have other options. College is not some kind of way of putting off adulthood. It is jumping in head-first without bothering to check how deep the water is. Boydstun, William O, JASKN and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laika Posted June 24, 2017 Report Share Posted June 24, 2017 On 11/21/2015 at 5:47 PM, JMeganSnow said: Closely related: I have been studying economics on my own and have been thinking I should major in it since I enjoy learning about it so much and it might put me in touch with other pro-capitalist people. On the other hand, given the schools that dominate the econ departments today, I'm thinking it might be a mistake to do that. --Chris Not sure of your circumstances, but as I recall Economics is a miss-match of various schools using concepts from both Neo-Classical and Keynesian Economics. The neo-classical and Keynesian economics are used in a synthesis based on treating microeconomics (individuals, business and particularly sectors) and macroeconomics (national, global and government) as simply different scales of study. Economics courses may be prone to be "intolerant" of dissenting views or "heterodox economics" by teaching the course material as if it were a scientific fact not up for discussion. the philosophical implications of economics generally do not come up, even though they are more interesting for telling us hard truths about human motivation. Moreover, its worth having a very good understanding of mathematics before you study economics as much of the course material is about applying mathematical concepts and formulas of "rational choice theory" as "econometrics" rather than philosophical thought about economic motivations or organisation. (this is why I nearly failed my first year because I hated the maths even if I was actually ok at it). economics courses have come under significant criticism from Student groups in the UK (and such protests have gone global). the major objection being that they are out of touch with the economic realities and implications of the 2008 Crash. Some of the material below may be of interest: http://www.post-crasheconomics.com/ https://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/oct/24/students-post-crash-economics I dropped out of Economics in 2008 (but was really interested in it at Secondary School/Sixth form and was good at it). It was probably the right decision but completely de-railed my career trajectory. there were maybe 20 people on the course doing "pure" economics over something like business economics or finance, etc. I found that many people left the course who were actually interested in it because they were so dissatisfied with it: I came from a Marxist-Socialist background but admired J.K. Galbraith and wouldn't have minded following in his footsteps, whereas another was a Keynesian (and member of the British National Party), and a third was very interested in Milton Friedman as a libertarian (and moved to a politics course I think). I did draw the conclusion that those who were actually principled in studying economics didn't like the "messiness" and the dogmatic and monolithic nature of the course material, so you may find yourself in a similar situation. I'm NOT saying don't do it- but it could be something that may not work out if you are a "free thinker" and are reluctant to compromise your principles of desire for truth and knowledge. professional economists are doing it for the money and its reasonable to think their work reflects the interests of whoever pays their salary. this joke sort of illustrates the point: A mathematician, an accountant and an economist apply for the same job. The interviewer calls in the mathematician and asks "What do two plus two equal?" The mathematician replies "Four." The interviewer asks "Four, exactly?" The mathematician looks at the interviewer incredulously and says "Yes, four, exactly." Then the interviewer calls in the accountant and asks the same question "What do two plus two equal?" The accountant says "On average, four - give or take ten percent, but on average, four." Then the interviewer calls in the economist and poses the same question "What do two plus two equal?" The economist gets up, locks the door, closes the shade, sits down next to the interviewer and says, "What do you want it to equal"? I'm not sure how useful it may be, but I remember the authors of my graduate first-year economics textbook. It will probably depend on which university you go to but there is a revised edition of the textbook still in use. If you can find a copy (preferably cheap) it could give you a much better idea of where Economics courses are at and if its really what your looking for. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Economics-Richard-Lipsey/dp/0199257841 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.