Fiancee problem

[Schefflera Arboricola]

Not really, because it's the truth and she knows it.

Were you replying to my comment?

I was not rhetorically asking why you told her that. It was a real question.

--Schefflera

[The Wrath]

I was replying to the "very unattractive comment" part. I said that because I know her and I know that if she broke up with me, she would be miserable.

[Schefflera Arboricola]

I was replying to the "very unattractive comment" part.  I said that because I know her and I know that if she broke up with me, she would be miserable.

I think we're miscommunicating. I'm not debating whether it's <i>true</i> that if she broke up with you, she would be miserable. That would be silly for me to do. I don't know either of you.

What I was trying to point out is literally the unattractive quality of the remark, "If you lost me, you'd be miserable." For one thing, any sentient human resents being <i>told</i> what they feel or think. For another, it comes across as very "needy." Believe me--it's not just Objectivist women who think that clingy men aren't. And finally, think about all that remark implies. It's very close to saying, "Without me, you're nothing."

--Schefflera

(Edited to turn HTML on for italics.)

Edited September 14, 2005 by Schefflera Arboricola

[The Wrath]

I guess I see your point, but I don't think she took it that way.

[The Wrath]

Okay, update time.

I've been trying hard to give her the space she needs. The problem now is that we hardly ever talk. And, when we do, it's usually just so she can tell me what she's doing next and when she'll call me again.

Every now and then, she'll say something encouraging. For instance, the other day I mentioned that I was thinking about getting a cat and she said she didn't think Pepper (her cat) would take kindly to a new cat...so, that shows she's still thinking about us being together in the future.

But then we have days like yesterday. We were both busy until about 4:00. When we finally would have been able to talk, she decided to go watch car races with some friends from home. Now, I don't expect her to never go out with her friends just so she can talk to me all the time, but given the fact that we hardly ever talk anymore, it would have been nice. Then, she was supposed to call me when she left to go back to school today, but instead called me when she got there. Now she's busy until 4 again. My biggest issue right now is that she just doesn't seem like she really wants to talk to me.

This all just happened so fast. I can't understand how she could go from being so head-over-heels in love with me to acting like this, in such a short period of time.

Edited September 18, 2005 by Moose

[hunterrose]

I've been trying hard to give her the space she needs. The problem now is that we hardly ever talk. And, when we do, it's usually just so she can tell me what she's doing next and when she'll call me again.

Every now and then, she'll say something encouraging. For instance, the other day I mentioned that I was thinking about getting a cat and she said she didn't think Pepper (her cat) would take kindly to a new cat...so, that shows she's still thinking about us being together in the future. []

My biggest issue right now is that she just doesn't seem like she really wants to talk to me.

Boy, do you have it bad That's not a bad thing in and of itself, of course, but you can't let this pull you apart.

BE COOL.

You've gotta show her that:

- you really like her, but you're not to worry about things you can't affect.

- you know she knows how you feel, so you don't feel the need to constantly show/state it.

- if she wants to break up, you'll be sad, but you'll accept it.

I wouldn't say those things in so many words, but if you take such an attitude, you won't have to explicitly say it for her to realize your level-headedness.

Personally, I think you'd be better of if you intentionally missed one of her calls. And didn't give an explanation (anything plausible) why unless she asked.

Whether or not you do that, I suggest you take a calmer approach to the whole thing.

[softwareNerd]

HunterRose, Are you suggesting that Moose play "hard to get"?

[The Wrath]

I think that would be a mistake. I talk to her so little, as it is. My biggest fear is that we get used to not talking to each other, until our relationship gradually dies away.

[hunterrose]

HunterRose, Are you suggesting that Moose play "hard to get"?

Kinda, I guess *hunterrose scurries away to "camp" topic*

I look at it this way: what benefit do you get from excessively worrying and waiting by the phone?

If she truly questioned Moose's love, or further professions of amore could sway her, this might help, true. Big IF, though. Hasn't he already done everything?

If she thinks he's indifferent, she might decide to break up. But there's no need to be indifferent, just not so ... clingy?

Is it really likely that the young miss is needing a sign from Moose, or deciding his love's strength? If it's not the case, what benefit cancels out the obvious detriment of worrying?

Perhaps a good question is what would her reaction be if she knew Moose was so greatly concerned over whether she called at x o'clock [ not to be asked of her, of course!] If she'd be pleased, then I guess you're doing the right thing. If she wouldn't, maybe you're not.

Ultimately, I don't mean play "hard to get" so much as play cool, and not so much play cool as be cool. If you are truly at ease with the situation (not just acting a role,) I think good things would come of it.

IMO if you really, really, really fear missing one of her calls, you NEED to miss one of her calls. For the relationship, and more importantly, for yourself.

I think that would be a mistake. I talk to her so little, as it is. My biggest fear is that we get used to not talking to each other, until our relationship gradually dies away.

Don't you mean that you fear she would get used to not talking until the relationship died?

Course I'm not trying to push anything on you, so take this with a grain of salt

[xavier]

I would strongly advise AGAINST playing any type of game such as intentionally avoiding a phone call. It may hurt her due to mis-understanding but it will probably hurt you more because you are now playing a pointless, childish game and worrying about how she will react. You said earlier that you may read too much into things, and this will make it worse.

HunterRose did say to "be cool" which is good advice, but I would describe it as being cool-headed. Separate your values from your emotions and don't let you emotions paralyze you. You still need to eat, work on your Master's Thesis, enjoy your life, etc.

I think that would be a mistake. I talk to her so little, as it is. My biggest fear is that we get used to not talking to each other, until our relationship gradually dies away.

This sounds rather dangerous to me. You should be very concerned that you will lose this relationship, since it is valuable to you, but I don't think you should be fearful about it. You need to find things outside of your relationship that make you happy. That is probably your biggest battle right now. Finding other things that make you happy does not dimish your relationship.

Don't push her to make a decision. This may take weeks to resolve. Let her know you are waiting, but remind her that she has no obligations to anyone except herself.

Hope that helps!

[The Wrath]

Thanks xavier...good advice.

Anyway, I just talked to her for about an hour and a half. That was by far the most normal conversation we've had so far, even given the fact that's she's got some hardcore PMS going on right now. There were a few encouraging things she said. Firstly, she said she wanted me to think she's skinny, which tells me that she still wants me to be attracted to her. She also said something about not wanting one of my friends to start taking me to strip clubs...that's the kind of thing that would have pissed me off before, but now I find it quite relieving. One thing I find puzzling though, is that she asked if I had talked to my parents about our problems. She said that was just a random thought, but I can't decide if it's a good or a bad sign. In an effort to make things seem like normal, I sang "Unchained Melody" to her to try and cheer her up. No, I wasn't just trying to win points...I used to do that every night. Sometimes, she would even call me in the middle of the night and ask me to sing...so, hopefully, that will make things seem more normal.

Anyway, I recognize the need to find other things to do. But, at the same time, I want to be available whenever she wants to talk. We talk so little as it is, that I really don't think our relationship could survive on much less.

I talked to my sister earlier today, and she believes that my fiancee is being cruel. Of course my sister is biased, so I don't know if I can really agree with that. She advised me to ask her to set aside some time this weekend to think things over. Does anyone think this is a good idea?

[hunterrose]

she's got some hardcore PMS going on right now.

Blarg, that sucks

I want to be available whenever she wants to talk. We talk so little as it is, that I really don't think our relationship could survive on much less.

Okey-doke.

[My sister] advised me to ask [my fiancee] to set aside some time this weekend to think things over. Does anyone think this is a good idea?

Nope. Do you really want to suggest to your fiancee that she's not thinking things over in the first place?

[Felix]

As far as I see it, Moose, try to relax. I know that it's easier to say than to do but try it. I would go with xavier's advice. You can't really do much. All you CAN do, you already do.

It's up to her to get clear about her feelings and you cannot force things here. You just can't. So try to live your life as good as you can during this time.

Getting married is a big step and needs to be thoroughly considered, but if what you said about your love is true, she'll make the right decision.

[The Wrath]

Okay, new update.

A little while ago, we talked on AOL for a rather long time...not on phone, b/c of free minutes and everything. I'm glad it was on AOL, actually, b/c now I can read it whenever I want to.

Anyway, I no longer have any doubt that she loves me and still wants to talk to me. I took advice from some of you. I told her that I, too, had gone through a period of doubt, but emerged from it convinced that, although we may not be perfect for each other, she is close to perfect as I will ever find for myself and that it is now up to her to decide if she sees me in the same way. That may sound kinda bad, but she liked it and said it was "cute."

We've decided to take a break from talking until Saturday, October 1st. When I say that, I don't mean that we will not have any contact, whatsoever. She'll still IM me and call me occasionally to let me know what she's doing and how things are going, but we won't be having any long conversations like we're used to doing.

She kept telling me how bad she felt. From what I can tell, she was crying for much of the conversation. As awful as it sounds, the fact that she feels bad actually makes me feel much better, because it shows that it hurts her to be away from me.

Anyway, that's about it. I'm still concerned about the situation, but I feel exponentially better than I have been and I am more encouraged that everything will work out.

I'm sure I'll post more updates as they occur. Thanks to everyone who has offered advice. As corny as it sounds, I really don't think I would have handled this situation as well as I have if some of you had not offered your advice, because it's advice that no one outside of these forums gave.

[The Wrath]

In case anyone's interested, things seem to be back to normal. She seems to have gotten through whatever little stage she was having. I realized things were back to normal when all of her little quirks ceased to be "cute" and went back to being "annoying" again.

Anyway, thanks to all who offered advice. It did not (except in the case of miedra, et al) go unheeded and it actually helped me through the situation.