Homeless? Have A Drink...

[softwareNerd]

This article would be funny if it were a spoof. It isn't. A group of people in Canada gave drinks to homeless people. The one's who did not die of alcohol-related illness reported "...a markedly decreased consumption of beverage and non-beverage alcohol, and most reported improved sleep, hygiene, nutrition and health,..."

No control group was used.

[shane]

Instead of killing themselves fast using their own money, they kill themselves slowly using other peoples money.

I cannot believe CNN put this in their top stories on the front page.

[Liriodendron Tulipifera]

I lived in Toronto for nearly a year, ending in August. Part of what drove me nuts was the attitude toward homeless people. They were everywhere. Toronto has a huge homeless problem, fed by the attitude of the people who live there. At Christmastime last year, I was going crazy with the amount of "help the homeless" ads on TV. They built some huge shelter there last year, spent millions on it, and the homeless don't even go there.

Many of the homeless in TO were either drunk, mental, or young people just wanting to live on the street. Their parents give them cell phones to communicate, so this makes it easy for them. Where I lived, on the corner of College and Yonge, we had several drunks who would just hang out there panhandling all day long. One my one block walk to the grocery store I would be approached by literally 2-3 people every day. I would work from home, and at times it was very annoying because there was one guy on the block who would scream filthy words at the top of his lungs for up to an hour.

There's actually a newspaper (I forget the name of it) specifically for homeless people to buy at around 50 cents, which they may then sell at a higher price. One is supposed to buy it for a dollar from them, but most of the homeless people selling it want more. From what I understand, they keep all of the money. I used to buy this paper from one guy outside the Carlton Cinema, because he was an interesting fellow and would hold the door for me, etc., but once he started bugging me for more than a dollar, I avoided him. The conversation wasn't worth that much!

This article is no surprise at all. There are a lot of Canadians that will do anything to "help" the homeless. I like Canada and Canadians, but they really go over the top on this and other "social" issues.

[Felix]

Hey! Homeless-Newspapers. We have that in Germany, too. I learned about this in a strange fashion.

There was a guy in the streets openly shouting "Homeless-Newspaper" over and over again. He suddenly approached me directly. He didn't spreak German even remotely well, so I didn't understand him, even though I really tried. What I understood was that he was trying to sell me his newspaper. I then repeatedly told him that I had no interest in this. He somehow didn't understand that, because he consistently tried to push me to buy that. Being all puzzled, I just left him standing there and went away. A friend of mine then tried to explained this to me:

F: "He wants you to buy his newspaper."

Me: "Yes, I understood that. But I don't want to buy his newspaper. It looks rather boring."

F: "That's not why you should buy it."

Me: "Why else should I buy it? If he just wants charity money he can just ask."

To me this seemed just like a way to make charity look like business and I didn't like it. I wasn't an Objectivist back then. In fact I was more of a socialist. Still, this seemed like fraud to me. I once bought one of these newspapers out of charity from a woman who really looked bad and I truly felt sorry for her and by then I was curious enough to have a look at one of these newspapers. It wasn't really worth the money. Even though it was just a curiosity-buy.

What makes me wonder is: They go through all these efforts to create that newspaper and in the end they have something nobody really wants to buy. Why don't they just sell successful magazines or newspapers on a commission basis? They will sell more and make more money and the money will be truly earned instead of begged for.

But that's not allowed, I guess, since it would be exploitation.

[softwareNerd]

The newspaper thing is a good example of what fake self-esteem is all about. They want to give themselves the feel of rationality and productiveness when the whole endeavor is irrational and wasteful.

[Liriodendron Tulipifera]

From what I remember, Felix, the 1-2 papers I bought were also nonsense. They were filled with junk and conspiracy theories.

The problem with those who help the homeless is that they don't know how to help. They think that everyone out there is there because they "fell on hard times." They can't understand why anyone would want to live on the street. My mom is one such person. It's taken her a long time to understand that there's really nothing she can do to help, if they don't first want to help themselves.

A few years ago I stopped here in Syracuse to talk to a young girl who was on the street. I felt really sorry for her, and she said she wanted to get to Minnesota to see her brother. I offered to buy the bus fare, but there was excuse after excuse. It was all a load of crap. She only wanted money for something I wouldn't even buy for myself - drugs or cigarettes.

On the other hand, I've offered to buy homeless people food, and most refuse or get angry (they just want money) but there was one guy who took me up on an offer of a hamburger and a coke, and was very grateful. That was really the one and only positive encounter I've had with a homeless person in my many years of interaction with them.

[DavidOdden]

He didn't spreak German even remotely well

You mean "spreck", I assume. Edited January 6, 2006 by DavidOdden

[IAmMetaphysical]

I once had a long conversation with a homeless girl myself, while doing an art project. She was only a few years older than me, about 23 or so, and her basic reason for being on the street was that she didn't want to have to live by society's rules. She didn't want to live with her parents, having to answer to them, and she didn't want to have job and have to answer to a boss. The truth is that most if not all able-minded-bodied homeless people CHOOSE to live on the street. There is really no reason why someone can not find some sort of thing to do in exchange for money which would allow them the money to buy food and shelter for themselves. The thing is, most if not all homelesss people would rather beg than work a minimum wage job for 40hrs a week, because they can make just as much or more an hour begging.

I was watching "A Christmas Carol" last night and there was a scene that was particularly annoying in which someone collecting alms approaches Scrooge and asks him for money for the poor. "Why don't they go to a workhouse??" Said Scrooge.

"Well mister Scrooge!" Exclaimed the man. "Most of the poor would rather die than go to a workhouse!"

This was supposed to be a defense of the poor and a reason for Scrooge to give charity. All it does is illustrate the irrationality of the poor in this story. They want to live, but not to have to take the necessary action needed in order to live. They are at least correct in knowing their natural alternative to working: death.

[Felix]

You mean "spreck", I assume.

Hey, someone got the joke.

[mweiss]

.... The thing is, most if not all homelesss people would rather beg than work a minimum wage job for 40hrs a week, because they can make just as much or more an hour begging.

I was watching "A Christmas Carol" last night and there was a scene that was particularly annoying in which someone collecting alms approaches Scrooge and asks him for money for the poor. "Why don't they go to a workhouse??" Said Scrooge.

"Well mister Scrooge!" Exclaimed the man. "Most of the poor would rather die than go to a workhouse!"

This was supposed to be a defense of the poor and a reason for Scrooge to give charity. All it does is illustrate the irrationality of the poor in this story. They want to live, but not to have to take the necessary action needed in order to live. They are at least correct in knowing their natural alternative to working: death.

Quoting an ex-friend of mine who had been to Nam and later bummed across the country on a bike for a year, "minimum wage jobs are not worth getting up in the morning for."

Indeed, existing at a dead-end job, as he had for years, is not living.

I've been down that path too, working many unsatisfying, miserable jobs for subsistence wages. I got to a point where I just couldn't get out of bed on time anymore. Since 1985, I've been self-employed. Poorer than a poke in the bogs, but happier than I've ever been, with the personal freedom I enjoy. Only problem is keeping my home and land from the tax collector, who wants half my gross income this year...

[Groovenstein]

Quoting an ex-friend of mine who had been to Nam and later bummed across the country on a bike for a year, "minimum wage jobs are not worth getting up in the morning for."

Indeed, existing at a dead-end job, as he had for years, is not living.

The hell they're not worth getting up for. When I moved to Nebraska following my undergrad degree, I had a year before I started law school. I didn't plan, I didn't arrange for a job out here. I tried to get a bunch, but after rejection upon rejection I ended up taking one at Wendy's to pay my bills. There is absolutely nothing wrong, morally, with working in fast food or other minimum wage jobs. The only thing I didn't like about it was that I worked with a slew of entitlement-crazed people who thought their jobs weren't worth getting up for.

That's not living? Do you know what standard of living you can have in America working a minimum wage job? You can have a place to live. You can eat. You can probably pay for public transportation. Need entertainment? Buy a used TV, ride the bus to the local library or video store. The American definition of "poverty" is appalling. Almost anyone can live in relative comfort here, even on minimum wage. Mentally retarded people can even get jobs here. If "existing" at a dead-end job is the best you can do, then that's the best you can do. Not everyone is a Rhodes scholar. If doing your best to live a good life isn't worth getting up for, what the hell is?

[mweiss]

The hell they're not worth getting up for. When I moved to Nebraska following my undergrad degree, I had a year before I started law school. I didn't plan, I didn't arrange for a job out here. I tried to get a bunch, but after rejection upon rejection I ended up taking one at Wendy's to pay my bills. There is absolutely nothing wrong, morally, with working in fast food or other minimum wage jobs. The only thing I didn't like about it was that I worked with a slew of entitlement-crazed people who thought their jobs weren't worth getting up for.

That's not living? Do you know what standard of living you can have in America working a minimum wage job? You can have a place to live. You can eat. You can probably pay for public transportation. Need entertainment? Buy a used TV, ride the bus to the local library or video store. The American definition of "poverty" is appalling. Almost anyone can live in relative comfort here, even on minimum wage. Mentally retarded people can even get jobs here. If "existing" at a dead-end job is the best you can do, then that's the best you can do. Not everyone is a Rhodes scholar. If doing your best to live a good life isn't worth getting up for, what the hell is?

I think we're talking about 'quality of life' issues here. One certainly can't live on minimum wage in THIS part of the country. I know a couple of people who earn above minimum wage and live in boarding houses sharing the space with roomates. The place where they live is crime-infested, mostly Hispanic & very poor and the landlord is a slumlord. If you have a car, you won't have it for long. Car theft and vandalism are rampant. But the guy wasn't homeless by definition. He just lived in a really disgusting sewer of a room in an even more disgusting dilapidated multifamily house.

Once one is in the employment circumstance, it is very hard to move up, unless you have super-human energy levels and stamina and enough money for college, or an employer with a reimbursement program.

I myself am barely hanging on. I grossed maybe $19K last year, and paid $11,692 in property taxes. My wife has a 'decent' job in semiconductor. She grossed $37K last year.

Seeing our situation, my wife attempted to enroll in online distance learning through Westwood College Online. She works 12 hour shifts and was crazy to think that she could tackle schooling at the same time. And it would cost $60K for tuition fees. When she thought about it, she realized it would be impossible to do both.

Back in 1980, I tried to go to college and work at the same time. After three months of dozing off at work, I had to choose between college or a job. I had to eat, so I kept the job and stopped the college activity.

I think that one's perspective on quality of a job has a lot to do with their expectations in life. It also has to do with where they come from. If you're a refugee from Guatemala, then a menial minimum wage job looks pretty attractive--at least no one is shooting at you.

OTOH, if you've been raised to believe it is good to be a millionaire, set goals on having a large home, nice cars, nice things, then you will be a little bit disappointed when you find that you can't seem to move up from that menial task job.

I was always getting passed over for promotions when I worked as a repair technician in a modem factory. On top of that, I was bombarded with cigarette smoke all day and screechy, tinny radios blasting acid rock from three different directions and three different radio stations. I nearly commited a homicide one time when things came to blows with one particularly offensive employee about the radio noise. My blood pressure was 240/140 during that year. I finally had to get out of there. After that, when the money ran out, I took an emergency job working in a tampon factory. I got a nice case of silicosis of the lungs thanks to that job, where they had me hauling around 50lb rolls of fluff all day long. (They ALWAYS give the big guy the hardest physical jobs.) I quit that job in 1989 and have never touched a job since.

Now I work for myself. I have survived three business failures. I've started in typesetting, then graphic design, color prepress, and currently and pushing into videography. My day job is a freelance radio engineering consultant. At least I have multiple income sources, so as I raise my rates to adjust for cost of living and lose my client numbers, I still have other sources of random income.

But I would never go back to a regular job. To a corporation, you're just a consumable. They chew you up, burn you out and toss you like yesterday's trash.

[ex_banana-eater]

I am a teenager and just graduated high school, planning to attend university next year. My view, from my short experience, is that it is fairly easy to earn a decent living for oneself as an entry-level employee. Not only that, but it is easy for me to save money at the same time.

I began work at a large entry level call center this summer, knowing I had 1 year to save for university. I earn 2000 Canadian dollars per month when I include my overtime and bonuses. Minimum wage is 8/h here, but I earn slightly over that because I chose to take the graveyard shifts, work overtime, and make bonuses based on my effort. I've also been sent on all expenses paid business trips to the US based on my productivity, and it was very nice living in a Hilton.

With some effort I am able to accomplish saving for university and taking correspondence courses for my education. Shared accomodation can be had as low as $400/month here, including internet access, heat, water, and some furnishings. Room and board for as low as $600 per month.

Even as a socialist when I was younger, I always wondered why people were "going hungry" when 10lbs of rice can be had for an hour and a half of work. The reason, with the exception of the mentally retarded or those with medical problems, is because they are there by choice.