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Morning Tiredness

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It makes sense. Light is essential in keeping the body functioning properly. Im going to open my blinds in my room, so in the morning the sun will be shining through. I'll see how it affects me.

Hah, that's funny. I've always preferred very bright lamps in the house: I want them to be like, BOOM, that sucker is ON! When I was living in a dorm room with very dim fluorescent lamps, I would never feel awake until I could get outside and actually see the sun.

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You don't get a lunch hour? I've thought of trying it and I have a job, I just prefer to be flexible on the taking-a-lunch front because I'm confronted with a bunch of bad examples of the other sort where I work.

You'd need more than a single lunch hour, I would think. To sleep 8 out of 24 hours, you would need 16 half-hour sleep intervals. That means in a given 8 hour shift, you'd have to sleep 5-6 times. Try explaining that to the boss.

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Im going to open my blinds in my room, so in the morning the sun will be shining through. I'll see how it affects me.

:dough:

Self-abuse may not be the answer.

How about this, for a stab in the dark: when I was a kid, a severe loss happened to me........for years, I couldn't face waking up and facing life again.........not until I understood the connection between the past and the present, after which waking up became totally normal again.

Perhaps you've got some kind of trauma in your own childhood, Baseball?

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Self-abuse may not be the answer.

Its not that bad actually. Ive had the sun shining into my room the past two mornings and it seems to possibly have positive side effects, but those arent conclusive results. I'll report more certain conclusions in the near future.

How about this, for a stab in the dark: when I was a kid, a severe loss happened to me........for years, I couldn't face waking up and facing life again.........not until I understood the connection between the past and the present, after which waking up became totally normal again.

Perhaps you've got some kind of trauma in your own childhood, Baseball?

Not that Im aware of. I dont think its a psychological problem, but instead a physical one. I wish I could have a lot of energy in the morning, because I want to take on my life situations. So Im sure its not a trauma holding me back. But theres probably a lot of people with this problem.

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BaseballGenius: Try waking up at different hours, and discover what is the best time for you to wake up: I discovered that my level of alertness in the morning highly depends on the hours that I am waking up on. I was very surprised by that: At times I may wake up earlier than what I can afford myself, sleep less, and still feel more alert (though the lack of sleep usually hits me later that day, but the first few hours are great).

It's as if waking up at a certain phase of sleep gets me "stuck" on a certain condition.

Maybe you can try deviding the morning hours to periods of 15 minutes (like 8, 8:15, 8:30, etc') and check which hours works best for you (writing it down may help keep track).

Hmm, that's a good advice actually. I think I will try it myself :) .

Inspector: I seem to have "sympoms" which are similar to yours, so I wanna ask: Would you have the same problem sleeping at night and being awake in the day if you moved to another location with a time of, say, +10 hours or so from where you live?

If so, then it must be something psychological (strongly prefering the nighttime over the daytime).

I also think that Blinky's advice to do workout (especially in the evening, at the end of the day) is very good. A walk in the fresh air is also good at that time.

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Maybe you can try deviding the morning hours to periods of 15 minutes (like 8, 8:15, 8:30, etc') and check which hours works best for you (writing it down may help keep track).

Hmm, that's a good advice actually. I think I will try it myself :) .

The trouble with that method is that it assumes that you fall asleep at a consistant time. With me, no way. When I go to bed, it's like rolling the dice. I could fall asleep right away. More likely, I'll be up for a while. This also makes it hard for me to go to bed. I know I may be in for a lot of boredom, so it's hard to motivate myself to do so when I could be doing any number of other things.

Inspector: I seem to have "sympoms" which are similar to yours, so I wanna ask: Would you have the same problem sleeping at night and being awake in the day if you moved to another location with a time of, say, +10 hours or so from where you live?

Maybe it would help; maybe not. I'm not sure. I think the hardest part about mornings is waking up when the sun isn't up. Ugh.

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You'd need more than a single lunch hour, I would think. To sleep 8 out of 24 hours, you would need 16 half-hour sleep intervals. That means in a given 8 hour shift, you'd have to sleep 5-6 times. Try explaining that to the boss.

The point of polyphasic sleep is that you only need to sleep once every FOUR hours, i.e. 3 1/2 hours total a day. So, if you work 8 hours you sleep once, during lunch, for 30 minutes. Did you actually go read the stuff on Diana's site? I should probably have provided a link. Other places may have different approaches.

Here we go: http://www.dianahsieh.com/blog/2006/07/dan...ze-buttons.html

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At times I may wake up earlier than what I can afford myself, sleep less, and still feel more alert (though the lack of sleep usually hits me later that day, but the first few hours are great).

It's as if waking up at a certain phase of sleep gets me "stuck" on a certain condition.

Yeah, me too sometimes. But instead of feeling tired in the morning, you admit(and I agree) that you'll just tire out in the late afternoon. So its switching time periods during the day when you will feel tired.

Maybe you can try deviding the morning hours to periods of 15 minutes (like 8, 8:15, 8:30, etc') and check which hours works best for you (writing it down may help keep track).

Hmm, that's a good advice actually. I think I will try it myself :) .

Sure, you try that. Why do you think that could be a beneficial study? What are your reasons that make you think its significant what exact time you wake up?

I also think that Blinky's advice to do workout (especially in the evening, at the end of the day) is very good. A walk in the fresh air is also good at that time.

Im running around all day, because Im a pizza delivery guy. Im constantly jogging. I dont think aerobic exercise plays much of a role in my morning tiredness.

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The trouble with that method is that it assumes that you fall asleep at a consistant time. With me, no way. When I go to bed, it's like rolling the dice. I could fall asleep right away. More likely, I'll be up for a while.

Im sure you know this, but youre probably only going to fall asleep if youre tired. That means if you go into bed not feeling tired enough to fall asleep, you probably wont be able to. And if you do fall asleep, you'll wake up in the middle of the night and have trouble falling back asleep. I understand your intentions are that you want to go to bed at a reasonable hour instead of constantly pushing your bedtime back, but I think you just need to figure out how to become more tired for a more consistent bedtime.

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Like I said, I was going to do a "meticulous" study on how caffeine affects my morning moods. I took a 200mg caffeine pill this morning, and I honestly have felt great the entire day, including the morning. I havent even tired out yet - no crash. In fact, I just got home from a 10 hour workday(feeling pretty energized still) and I volunteered to come back tonight to work five more hours.

I think part of the problem with the lack of energy it provided in previous attempts can be explained by what I did and did not do during those days. When I took it previously, I remember they were taken on my days off and when I wasnt very active. Today, however, the whole day I have been working, and the activity must have stimulated the stimulant. My senses and mind awareness have been in top shape.

I know the caffeine was affecting my body because I had to go #1 a lot today, and I was so hot all day(temperature wise). I was ridiculously hot today, even standing outside in the semi-cold weather didnt cool me down much. I was drinking a boatload of water all day, so I dont know if dehydration was the reason for it or not.

I have a day off from work tomorrow, so I dont plan on taking caffeine. Wednesday I work, and I'll take it again then.

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Im sure you know this, but youre probably only going to fall asleep if youre tired. That means if you go into bed not feeling tired enough to fall asleep, you probably wont be able to. And if you do fall asleep, you'll wake up in the middle of the night and have trouble falling back asleep. I understand your intentions are that you want to go to bed at a reasonable hour instead of constantly pushing your bedtime back, but I think you just need to figure out how to become more tired for a more consistent bedtime.

The trouble is that, for the most part, I don't feel tired until at least an hour or two after when I had gone to bed the previous night. If I am not sleep deprived (i.e. I got 8+hours of sleep), then this is even worse. Any attempt to catch up on sleep only makes my situation worse, as it guarantees that I won't get to bed the next night and so will necessarily lose sleep then. It's like I can never, ever catch up on sleep. Unless, of course, I just do what comes naturally and sleep an hour or two later every single day until I'm on the night shift, then back on the day shift. Unfortunately, it is impossible to do this while holding down a job.

Hey, if someone slowed the earth down so the days were 26 hours, I'd be set.

Also, I've never woken up in the middle of the night so I know I actually am tired, but I don't feel it. Just like I don't feel hungry after waking up.

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Im sure you know this, but youre probably only going to fall asleep if youre tired. That means if you go into bed not feeling tired enough to fall asleep, you probably wont be able to.

This isn't true. Meditative processes, especially those geared towards muscle relaxation and unfocusing(or over-focusing depending on how you look at it) can get you to sleep when you are not tired, initially.

Waking up at the same time each day is certainly helpful and will eventually normalize the time you go to sleep, if you are consistent...that means weekends too. :) At least it does for me, to the extent that I am consistent about it.

Another trick is to only use your bed for sleep. Don't read there, don't think there, don't...well..you can do that...but don't associate anything else besides that and sleep with your bed. We tend to be creatures of habit. Along these same lines, doing any

Another possibility is hormonal deficiencies. I understand this to be especially common in men as they age. Causes an inability to get REM sleep, which causes problems. I believe there are medical treatments for that now.

Inspector: I have the exact same issue. 26 hours seems like it would be better, but I am almost certain I would be wishing for 28 if I had 26. Mor me, I think it has something to do with trying to cheat reality out of a couple more hours. There was a woman who did a time deprivation study by locking herself in a cave for some number of weeks without any clocks. If I remember correctly she ended up on a awake for 2 days, sleep for 12 hour cycle. Probably need it done on more people then one to see if there was a natural ratio necessary(disregarding the sun's effects), but it is interesting to consider.

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Meditative processes, especially those geared towards muscle relaxation and unfocusing(or over-focusing depending on how you look at it) can get you to sleep when you are not tired, initially.
Hah! Doesn't work for me. Not at all, and believe me; I've tried. Not only won't my mind "meditate," no matter how hard I try, but also I find even the attempt to be excruciatingly boring.

Waking up at the same time each day is certainly helpful and will eventually normalize the time you go to sleep, if you are consistent...that means weekends too. :) At least it does for me, to the extent that I am consistent about it.

This does help slow, but not stop, my problem. The trouble is that sooner or later, I need to catch up.

Another trick is to only use your bed for sleep. Don't read there, don't think there, don't...well..you can do that...

I don't know. Sometimes, watching TV helps me sleep. Others, it keeps me up. Right now, I am doing as you advise.

Inspector: I have the exact same issue. 26 hours seems like it would be better, but I am almost certain I would be wishing for 28 if I had 26.

Perhaps. Some of the trouble is going to bed; the rest is going to sleep. I think it would be a lot easier for me if I knew that going to bed would produce sleep rather than boredom. And I know that reading, TV, being on the computer, before bed is proven to cause problems, but what is my alternative? You're basically asking me to take 1/2 hour each day to be bored. No thank you.

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Hah! Doesn't work for me. Not at all, and believe me; I've tried. Not only won't my mind "meditate," no matter how hard I try, but also I find even the attempt to be excruciatingly boring.

....

You're basically asking me to take 1/2 hour each day to be bored. No thank you.

That's sorta the point. It is hard to sleep when your mind is active. Making it bored will make it more interested in sleep.

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Mmm. Not really a good bargain for the most part.

"Making your mind bored" sounds so much less romantic than "meditation," doesn't it?

Well...I have had some luck with using it to wake myself up in the mornig also. So I think of it more generally as attempting to conciously alter your emotional state. Making your mind bored is simply the use in question. You wouldn't want to try and make yourself feel more energetic before bed.

As to whether or not it's a good bargain, I suppose it would depend on how effective it was for you. If it helped you sleep and feel more awake for the rest of the day it might be worth it.

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As to whether or not it's a good bargain, I suppose it would depend on how effective it was for you. If it helped you sleep and feel more awake for the rest of the day it might be worth it.

It might. If it worked. Depending on how long it took to work. That is, if I could actually cause my mind to not think things. So far, no dice. At least, not if I'm not engaged in a task. I can't think about nothing, though. I can sit there thinking, "nothingnothingnothingnothingnothingnothingnothing," but that's really no help. The intense concentration required to keep that up is more than enough to wake me up.

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Each night when I get into bed, I ly down and rest my head up against the headboard instead of on the pillow. During this time, I spend it thinking and its a quite intense concentration as well. This helps me exhaust the mind, and believe it or not, I have some of my best ideas at this time. Then I lay my head down on the pillow once I feel tired enough to fall asleep, which is usually after 30-45 minutes. Its a habit, its my method, and it works nearly every night.

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The trouble is that, for the most part, I don't feel tired until at least an hour or two after when I had gone to bed the previous night.

There are a couple things that helped me with this problem. I just need to ask a couple questions first:

1)What does your typical day consist of? What do you do all day?

2)How many hours of sleep do you get each night? Is it a full night sleep or do you use an alarm?

Also, I've never woken up in the middle of the night so I know I actually am tired, but I don't feel it. Just like I don't feel hungry after waking up.

Try my method I explained in my last post.

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Each night when I get into bed, I ly down and rest my head up against the headboard instead of on the pillow. During this time, I spend it thinking and its a quite intense concentration as well. This helps me exhaust the mind, and believe it or not, I have some of my best ideas at this time. Then I lay my head down on the pillow once I feel tired enough to fall asleep, which is usually after 30-45 minutes. Its a habit, its my method, and it works nearly every night.

That's not really any different from what I do. And I consider that to be failure. 30-45 minutes is too long to spend doing nothing.

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1)What does your typical day consist of? What do you do all day?

I've had this problem no matter what kind of schedule I keep and no matter what kind of day I've had. The only thing that will get me to sleep is exhaustion.

2)How many hours of sleep do you get each night? Is it a full night sleep or do you use an alarm?
Typically, I get 6-7. I need at least 8, sometimes 9 to be refreshed. If I'm sleep deprived, I can need 10+ to get back to normal. I have to use an alarm if I don't want to sleep in; see above. If I do sleep in, I'm screwed for getting to sleep the next night. Again, see above.

Try my method I explained in my last post.

I know people who put their head on the pillow and are asleep within 5 minutes. These are true morning people. If I've been up enough hours, this is me. 30-45 minutes is failure, plain and simple.

Where should someone have sex?

Read between the lines:

Don't read there, don't think there, don't...well..you can do that...
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That's not really any different from what I do. And I consider that to be failure. 30-45 minutes is too long to spend doing nothing.

You act like youre so busy and productive every second of the day. That you dont even spend any time resting or being relaxed ever. "Oh, doing nothing but thinking for 30 minutes is not productive enough for me, even if something like this is necessary to help me fall asleep."

Can you explain how thinking about the days events or other thoughts is doing nothing? And why is that not productive to you, especially if it helps relax you before bed? Also, do you put your head on the headboard or on the pillow right away?

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