"What am I doing wrong?" -- a funny Craig's List post

[Moebius]

I am sure some of you guys have already read this, but it really is one of the funniest things I've read in a while. It's an actual mate seeking post on Craig's List New York. I tried to link the original post, but it has since expired. I will post the text.

Here is the original Craigslist posting:

What am I doing wrong?

Okay, I’m tired of beating around the bush. I’m a beautiful

(spectacularly beautiful) 25 year old girl. I’m articulate and classy.

I’m not from New York. I’m looking to get married to a guy who makes at least half a million a year. I know how that sounds, but keep in mind that a million a year is middle class in New York City, so I don’t think I’m overreaching at all.

Are there any guys who make 500K or more on this board? Any wives? Could you send me some tips? I dated a business man who makes average around 200 - 250. But that’s where I seem to hit a roadblock. 250,000 won’t get me to central park west. I know a woman in my yoga class who was married to an investment banker and lives in Tribeca, and she’s not as pretty as I am, nor is she a great genius. So what is she doing right? How do I get to her level?

Here are my questions specifically:

- Where do you single rich men hang out? Give me specifics- bars, restaurants, gyms

-What are you looking for in a mate? Be honest guys, you won’t hurt my feelings

-Is there an age range I should be targeting (I’m 25)?

- Why are some of the women living lavish lifestyles on the upper east side so plain? I’ve seen really ‘plain jane’ boring types who have nothing to offer married to incredibly wealthy guys. I’ve seen drop dead gorgeous girls in singles bars in the east village. What’s the story there?

- Jobs I should look out for? Everyone knows - lawyer, investment

banker, doctor. How much do those guys really make? And where do they hang out? Where do the hedge fund guys hang out?

- How you decide marriage vs. just a girlfriend? I am looking for

MARRIAGE ONLY

Please hold your insults - I’m putting myself out there in an honest

way. Most beautiful women are superficial; at least I’m being up front about it. I wouldn’t be searching for these kind of guys if I wasn’t able to match them - in looks, culture, sophistication, and keeping a nice home and hearth.

it’s NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests

PostingID: 432279810

This in and of itself I thought was funny in a sad social commentary sort of way. But the response was genius:

Dear Pers-431649184:

I read your posting with great interest and have thought meaningfully about your dilemma. I offer the following analysis of your predicament.

Firstly, I’m not wasting your time, I qualify as a guy who fits your

bill; that is I make more than $500K per year. That said here’s how I see it.

Your offer, from the prospective of a guy like me, is plain and simple a crappy business deal. Here’s why. Cutting through all the B.S., what you suggest is a simple trade: you bring your looks to the party and I bring my money. Fine, simple. But here’s the rub, your looks will fade and my money will likely continue into perpetuity…in fact, it is very likely that my income increases but it is an absolute certainty that you won’t be getting any more beautiful!

So, in economic terms you are a depreciating asset and I am an earning asset. Not only are you a depreciating asset, your depreciation accelerates! Let me explain, you’re 25 now and will likely stay pretty hot for the next 5 years, but less so each year. Then the fade begins in earnest. By 35 stick a fork in you!

So in Wall Street terms, we would call you a trading position, not a buy and hold…hence the rub…marriage. It doesn’t make good business sense to “buy you” (which is what you’re asking) so I’d rather lease. In case you think I’m being cruel, I would say the following. If my money were to go away, so would you, so when your beauty fades I need an out. It’s as simple as that. So a deal that makes sense is dating, not marriage.

Separately, I was taught early in my career about efficient markets. So, I wonder why a girl as “articulate, classy and spectacularly beautiful” as you has been unable to find your sugar daddy. I find it hard to believe that if you are as gorgeous as you say you are that the $500K hasn’t found you, if not only for a tryout.

By the way, you could always find a way to make your own money and then we wouldn’t need to have this difficult conversation.

With all that said, I must say you’re going about it the right way. Classic “pump and dump.”

I hope this is helpful, and if you want to enter into some sort of lease, let me know.

[LaszloWalrus]

If only there were a government program to keep her looks from depreciating.

That is quite sad and quite funny.

[D'kian]

If only there were a government program to keep her looks from depreciating.

It's informally going to be called Hillarycare.

Don't you think amid shortages of medical services there will be plenty of plastic surgery given to aging bimbos, because they need it to maintain their self-esteem. While denying a white male a triple bypass it's ok, because he's white, male, and probably didn't vote Democratic?

[KendallJ]

While I think the female poster is a bit sad and shallow, I think the exchange is great.

Here is a concrete example of how a market is "made", just as with any market for goods, but in this case we see a market being made in character.

Lady: Here is what I have to offer. I think it is worth this much in trade.

Man: What you have to offer is not worth what you think it is, and here's why. What you'd want in trade is worth much more.

It's a fairly rational exchange of information, even if the man is a bit facetious.

[Mammon]

Hahaha, that WAS good. I like the guys response, you can tell he knows what he is talking about. When I'm making $500K+ a year I think I'll head this man's words.

[Maarten]

It's also funny to realize that this woman basically admits that she thinks successful and rich guys value physical beauty over any other value a woman could offer them. I mean, she can't know what other good qualities these "very plain" women have, and basically just assumes that she is better than them because she's more beautiful.

[JMeganSnow]

If you want to get rich and stay rich, a "beautiful" woman is probably the worst investment you can make, at least according to The Millionaire Mind. This is (at least partially) because divorce is the #1 long-term asset-killer, especially for men. Better qualities are: frugal, independent, motivated, intelligent, supportive. It really is kind of funny.

[Moebius]

If you want to get rich and stay rich, a "beautiful" woman is probably the worst investment you can make, at least according to The Millionaire Mind. This is (at least partially) because divorce is the #1 long-term asset-killer, especially for men. Better qualities are: frugal, independent, motivated, intelligent, supportive. It really is kind of funny.

Theoretically beauty and the qualities you listed are not mutually exclusive. Also the qualities you listed do not really prevent divorces.

If divorce was a concern, then the best quality would be for the woman to be stupendously rich, preferably even wealthier than the man. That way you come out on top either way. Loyalty and faithfulness is a close second.

[JMeganSnow]

Theoretically beauty and the qualities you listed are not mutually exclusive. Also the qualities you listed do not really prevent divorces.

If divorce was a concern, then the best quality would be for the woman to be stupendously rich, preferably even wealthier than the man. That way you come out on top either way. Loyalty and faithfulness is a close second.

Of course they aren't. But beauty *by itself* is WAY down the list. The qualities I listed *do* prevent divorce in a couple where one of the people is totally focused on their job. The other person has to operate almost entirely as an independent unit, taking care of the house, raising the kids, and not spending any more money than is absolutely necessary. And even if your wife is rich, divorce is still a massive asset-sink because the costs you once shared are usually doubled. (Both parties have to have an independent residence, for instance, and the children now travel between residences a lot . . . makes a big difference.)

[Moebius]

Of course they aren't. But beauty *by itself* is WAY down the list.

I don't know if it's just me, but personally beauty is pretty high on the list. Obviously it isn't the only criteria, but it's up there.

The qualities I listed *do* prevent divorce in a couple where one of the people is totally focused on their job. The other person has to operate almost entirely as an independent unit, taking care of the house, raising the kids, and not spending any more money than is absolutely necessary.

I think this is true perhaps for a middle class family. But if you are uber rich the priorities may be different since mundane tasks like household chores or child care can be delegated to hired help, and spending money on luxury items probably isn't much of an issue (unless you're going out and buying a new yacht every other week). For many of the wealthy men I have known, one of the qualities that is most important in their spouse is their social networking skills and charm, not the quality of their housework. Of course to excel in those areas one would need a certain degree of intelligence, but it's EQ over IQ in these cases.

And even if your wife is rich, divorce is still a massive asset-sink because the costs you once shared are usually doubled. (Both parties have to have an independent residence, for instance, and the children now travel between residences a lot . . . makes a big difference.)

Yeah this is true but if my wife was making a million a year and I was making 40Gs a year, I would still likely end up with far more money than I would have prior to the marriage. She would be the one that essentially bears all the costs through alimony.

[goldiemaz]

If she's serious, why would any man in his right mind want to marry her? Obviously, she's only after money. She deserves the reply she got from the guy.

[Steve D'Ippolito]

If she's serious, why would any man in his right mind want to marry her? Obviously, she's only after money. She deserves the reply she got from the guy.

A friend of mine likes to peruse the singles ads and provide a rather cynical interpretation of them. Anytime he sees the phrase "financially stable" in the list of things a woman wants, he calls out "IWYM" for "I Want Your Money".

I think he's being a bit harsh here--financial stability correlates highly with not being an alcholic or just too flakey to hold down a job or be reliable in any other sense.

[~Sophia~]

It is a big mistake to ignore the relevance of power in relationships - that goes for any human relationship: friendship, business, family, or romance. If a person provides something above what you would be able to achieve or have yourself or something unique not easily replacable - that "extra" can not be so valuable to you that it's presence would affect what you would be willing to put up with if it was not there. That goes for anything, any slight edge: beauty, knowledge, money/lifestyle, opportunity. A relationship will only be healthy if the other person does not have power over you, so that they trade on equal terms. For example, the only way you can have a good relationship with someone who is a lot more attractive is when their beauty (or youth), although nice to have, is not the most significant factor, meaning that you are not attached to having it so much (not attached to whatever status you feel it gives you) that it would imbalance the free trade status. They can never have a feeling that you would tolerate more from them, above what you would allow if they did not have that particular value. Same thing goes for money and especially so. It is possible to have a very good relationship with someone who is a lot more wealthy but only when you can and would part with their money in a blink of an eye in case of mistreatment (and they know it). This of course can not be faked long term - it is only possible if you trully don't value their wealth as much so that you are with them for other, much more important to you reasons.

I wonder if this girl understands what she would be getting herself into with this kind of an arrangement in which the other person knows that what she values the most in life is something she can't get it without them. Look how this guy responded to her already (not saying not deserved) - the imbalance of power is already very pronounced and it would only increase in time as her chances of finding another sugar daddy decrease with age.

If she is chosing this with full understanding of what it means - her lack of virtue goes way beyond the obvious.

Edited October 16, 2007 by ~Sophia~

[Tenure]

For example, the only way you can have a good relationship with someone who is a lot more attractive is when their beauty (or youth), although nice to have, is not the most significant factor, meaning that you are not attached to having it so much (not attached to whatever status you feel it gives you) that it would imbalance the free trade status.

I worry about this, because some women age amazingly well, such as Helen Mirren. Others, on the otherhand, lose their mind and their looks just by about age 40 (such as my ex-gf's mother). For me, it would be a tragedy, if the women I married at say, 30, was an insane, menopausal monster by the age of 50. I'm probably being arrogant, but judging by my parents and photos of my grandad when he was my age and before he died, I should age quite well. I'm just a very sensitive person, and I think I could easily end up feeling bad when my partners body starts to melt to goo.

[~Sophia~]

I worry about this, because some women age amazingly well, such as Helen Mirren. Others, on the otherhand, lose their mind and their looks just by about age 40 (such as my ex-gf's mother). For me, it would be a tragedy, if the women I married at say, 30, was an insane, menopausal monster by the age of 50.

This is not what I meant but to answer you - although there are differences in how people age which maybe affected by their state of health - a rational person will take the best care they can of their body and mind for as long as they live. Aging well is often not without effort.

Edited October 16, 2007 by ~Sophia~

[Moebius]

I wonder if this girl understands what she would be getting herself into with this kind of an arrangement in which the other person knows that what she values the most in life is something she can't get it without them. Look how this guy responded to her already (not saying not deserved) - the imbalance of power is already very pronounced and it would only increase in time as her chances of finding another sugar daddy decrease with age.

It is true that prior to marriage, the wealthy men would hold all the power. But I think the idea is that once she insinuates herself into a marriage, the balance of power shifts in her favor since she will get a large chunk of his wealth regardless of whether they stay married. Anna Nicole Smith is a prime example -- and hence the "pump and dump" analogy by the answerer in the original thread. Integrity issues aside, she is following the correct strategy given her goals and assets. After all, the probability that she will be able to go out and find a half a million dollar a year job is probably slim to none.

[aequalsa]

Are there any guys who make 500K or more on this board? Any wives? Could you send me some tips? I dated a business man who makes average around 200 - 250. But that’s where I seem to hit a roadblock. 250,000 won’t get me to central park west. I know a woman in my yoga class who was married to an investment banker and lives in Tribeca, and she’s not as pretty as I am, nor is she a great genius. So what is she doing right? How do I get to her level?

What a twit. I love these highly unrealistic notions of how much everyone is making. A $500k income is middle class? Common.

According to the census bureau the median household income(read two incomes) in NY state is $44,301 before taxes. 50% make less. In New York City it is $38K.

Nationally it is $44,389.

]According to wikipedia, "The Manhattan ZIP Code 10021, on the Upper East Side, is home to more than 100,000 people and has a per capita income of over $90,000.[96] It is one of the largest concentrations of extreme wealth in the United States." italics mine.

Only 1.5% of households make above $250,000/year

I couldn't find percentiles for 500k but I would guess she is looking for less then .5% of the population of households. Compound this by an order of magnitude since most of those households are two professionals knocking down 150k each. Compound it again since of the single income families that are earning 500k/ year...most will be older and probably married.

So these single available guys earning $500,000 a year are basically so rare as to be considered almost nonexistent. Her odds would probably be better playing the lotto. At least then she would just be a gambler and not a whore.

I have run into this notion before(especially with socialists). They have this weird idea of money and wealth. That everyone else has more then they do by a lot and it's just not fair. blech! A guy making 250 g's a year could real easy retire with 30 million in the bank if he invests well and takes some risks. And this nimrod turned that down repeatedly hoping for better. Because she doesn't understand the nature of wealth in the first place, she literally didn't see it when it was right in front of her. I find that fitting in so many ways. I hope those "poor" guys do as well as the probably will and she stumbles across them in 10-15 years. Tramp!

Edited October 17, 2007 by aequalsa

[Moebius]

So these single available guys earning $500,000 a year are basically so rare as to be considered almost nonexistent. Her odds would probably be better playing the lotto. At least then she would just be a gambler and not a whore.

I think it really depend on what sort of circle you hang out in. I mean yes, nation wide guys who make that money is rare. But on say, Wall Street, it's a dime a dozen. If you really want to meet wealthy people, you wouldn't shoot darts at a dart board blind folded. You'd go to yacht clubs, country clubs, golf courses and what not. I mean hell just in college I've met a half dozen trust fund babies just randomly. Obviously $500K a year in New York isn't middle class, but in Manhattan they really are everywhere. Most of my classmates from school that works on Wall Street right now are already making six digit salary per year on average after two or three years of work experience.

[aequalsa]

I think it really depend on what sort of circle you hang out in. I mean yes, nation wide guys who make that money is rare. But on say, Wall Street, it's a dime a dozen. If you really want to meet wealthy people, you wouldn't shoot darts at a dart board blind folded. You'd go to yacht clubs, country clubs, golf courses and what not. I mean hell just in college I've met a half dozen trust fund babies just randomly. Obviously $500K a year in New York isn't middle class, but in Manhattan they really are everywhere. Most of my classmates from school that works on Wall Street right now are already making six digit salary per year on average after two or three years of work experience.

Look, I am not trying to deny that wealthy people exist. Just that what she is looking for is an extremely small percent of the population. We're talking less the 1/10 of a percent here. This idea that this is the sort of income most people make is ludicrous on the face of it. And sure, if you are in the right yacht club you are going to up your chances but that would imply that you were wealthy enough on your own to afford the club. I could sit at a table with bill gates and warren buffet and say it that I couldn't throw a dart without hitting a billionaire. But that is not the same thing as them being a dime a dozen. It doesn't detract from the truth of my statements. Her notions of wealth are still far from realistic.

[Moebius]

Look, I am not trying to deny that wealthy people exist. Just that what she is looking for is an extremely small percent of the population. We're talking less the 1/10 of a percent here. This idea that this is the sort of income most people make is ludicrous on the face of it. And sure, if you are in the right yacht club you are going to up your chances but that would imply that you were wealthy enough on your own to afford the club. I could sit at a table with bill gates and warren buffet and say it that I couldn't throw a dart without hitting a billionaire. But that is not the same thing as them being a dime a dozen. It doesn't detract from the truth of my statements. Her notions of wealth are still far from realistic.

And I'm not saying that $500K clubs are every where. I'm just saying that if you're ever going to see a whole bunch of them hanging out in one place, it's probably going to be in Manhattan. So she is going in the right direction as far as her goals are concerned.

[aequalsa]

And I'm not saying that $500K clubs are every where. I'm just saying that if you're ever going to see a whole bunch of them hanging out in one place, it's probably going to be in Manhattan. So she is going in the right direction as far as her goals are concerned.

ok..I agree with that.