Ed from OC Posted August 1, 2004 Report Share Posted August 1, 2004 There's a woman where I work that I and a friend refer to as "Patricia Keating." Some things that either she's bragged about, seen myself, or heard from witnesses: - cheated her way through school, using her (ahem) unusually large endowments to get the socially awkward CompSci guys to do her homework and professors to change grades - flirts with almost every male engineer, often getting them to do pieces of her work (because she's completely incompetent) - slept with three layers of management in just over a year (including a married guy, who was pushed out as a result) - in debt up to her eyeballs, yet spends every penny on status symbols (a Mercedes, designer clothes, etc) - told new hires she was a manager, when she has no such role - will sit around for hours each day just gossipping The nice thing is just about everyone who has encountered her eventually clues in to what she is all about, and treats her accordingly. When word reached one program manager that she was interested in joining his group, his reply was "no way in hell!" She ended up in a confrontation with a female new hire, whose father (or uncle) sits on the head ethics committee for the entire company. Oops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSabbath Posted August 1, 2004 Report Share Posted August 1, 2004 I think the chances of finding one of Rand's villians in real life is very slim. Of course the ideas are prevalent world wide, but most people that I know of today are plain simple-folk that don't give a damn either way. At least in America, the culture is based on ignorance, not blatantly stating selflessness as the moral good. However, these 'simple-folk' do hold faulty premises which is the reason why we have so many problems today. I believe it will be hard to find a real life Jim Taggart or Wesley Mouch. But very easy to find people similar to them. If Bertram Scudder took up the Orren Boyle diet plan would he be Michael Moore? I defy anyone to re-read the 'malaise' speech and not wonder if Wesley Mouch wasn't from Plains, Georgia. More often than not, the real-life AR villain will say things straight from Atlas Shrugged or the Fountainhead. AR noticed this herself when she commented on JFK's speeches in her early 60's articles. The ideas behind the villains in Atlas were not controversial at the time and still are reasonably popular today. That is why it is quite easy to find AR villains in real life, at least of you judge them by what they say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matteomastrom Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 The reality of life is that you have the free will to be anybody you want to be. Ayn Rand villains are abundant in our world because it requires less effort not to think than it does to live by the mind. People tend to follow the examples of their ancestors and peers rather than consider objective reality in their standards for themselves. I believe that if just one person became a real life John Galt, that one person would be enough to change the world, just like the book character changes the world by convincing the good men to follow him to a new society. Ayn Rand was a Romantic Realist, which means that her kind of characters are completely possible in the real world. Reason is the ultimate weapon. I have tried hard to live up to that which I know is possible for myself, and although my journey has been filled with danger and despair, I have no doubt that one day I will do what I have hoped for, which I to become a real life John Galt, or better. For people who would look for Ayn Rand's good characters in real life, I would say, "Don't look for them in someone else; set out to achieve the ideal for yourself." The only way to succeed is to ignore other people's opinions. If you want to see the bad characters, just watch C-SPAN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSabbath Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 If you want to see the bad characters, just watch C-SPAN. You could have watched the Democrat's convention last week to see that. Wesley Mouch was there, you couldn't have missed him. He was an old boy with white hair and was a peanut farmer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 Matt says: " I have no doubt that one day I will do what I have hoped for, which I to become a real life John Galt, or better." Matt, you seem to imply that you are striving to be like John Galt, and not yourself. Is this what you are meaning to say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matteomastrom Posted August 6, 2004 Report Share Posted August 6, 2004 What I mean to say is that "yourself" is whatever you want to make it, and that you can live the life of an ideal man (or woman) if you try. You don't have to give up yourself to reach an ideal--you just have to change those parts of yourself that are counter-productive. I don't mean to copy Ayn Rand's book characters literally (that would be contrary to the principle of individualism, not to mention kind of silly); I don't want to change my name to John Galt, adopt all his mannerisms, smoke dollar-sign cigarettes, etc. I have my own idea of what the "ideal man" would be like, which is different than Ayn Rand's representation but based on the same philosophical premises. I want to put into practice a moral ideal, live as "man qua man," and work towards a free society (because no man of self-esteem consents to live in a society that considers him a slave). Individual self-sovereignty is worth fighting for, and I wish to devote myself to seeing that kind of society exist on Earth someday. John Galt was Ayn Rand's final expression of her ideal man, the man of genius who would not use his genius for the sake of those who wished to destroy him, the man without pain or fear or guilt, the man who loved his life, the man who used reason, rather than force, to bring down the evil in the world. Why can't we all be that kind of person? There's nothing stopping us but ourselves. Achieving self-actualization has become somewhat of an obsession for me, but if you're going to be obsessed with something, that's the thing to be obsessed about! Oh yeah, excuse the typo in my last post, the "I" should be an "is" in that sentence Brian just quoted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betsy Posted August 6, 2004 Report Share Posted August 6, 2004 I want to put into practice a moral ideal, live as "man qua man," and work towards a free society (because no man of self-esteem consents to live in a society that considers him a slave). Individual self-sovereignty is worth fighting for, and I wish to devote myself to seeing that kind of society exist on Earth someday. That is very abstract (and somewhat grandiose). What specific personal values do you seek? What, specifically, do you want to do? Do you want to write? Teach? Run for office? Start a business? Be an artist? Scientist? How do you plan to achieve the goals you aspire to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearster Posted August 6, 2004 Report Share Posted August 6, 2004 Achieving self-actualization I understand what you were trying to say, but "self-actualization" is a modern psycho-babble term. It is the anti-concept that is somewhat similar to the concept* of independent. *Most of the popular anti-concepts are similar to legitemate concepts. Think of duty being similar to responsibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betsy Posted August 6, 2004 Report Share Posted August 6, 2004 I understand what you were trying to say, but "self-actualization" is a modern psycho-babble term. It is the anti-concept that is somewhat similar to the concept* of independent. Most psychologists use it as a synonym for that Objectivist "supreme and ruling value of life" -- Self-esteem -- in an ethical tradition that goes back to Aristotle. One "self-actualization" theorist who gets it right about 80% of the time is A.H. Maslow and his work is very reasonable, readable, and enlightening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Areactor Posted August 6, 2004 Report Share Posted August 6, 2004 Most psychologists use it as a synonym for that Objectivist "supreme and ruling value of life" -- Self-esteem -- in an ethical tradition that goes back to Aristotle. One "self-actualization" theorist who gets it right about 80% of the time is A.H. Maslow and his work is very reasonable, readable, and enlightening. Maslow eh? In psyc I remember though I liked his chart the teacher's examples of the "self actualized" were Mother Teresa and Gandhi. Ugh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matteomastrom Posted August 6, 2004 Report Share Posted August 6, 2004 My personal goal is to live in a free society, by any means I can achieve it. I plan specifically to make money by writing, composing, and perhaps other artforms and then use that money to promote my political ideal. When I speak of self-actualization, I mean simply living up to one's highest potential. I know other people use that term differently and sometimes to mean something non-sensical, but that's not how I use it. I have already achieved what I consider the most important goal: self-esteem. Anything I do in the future will be simply an expression and continuation of my self-esteem because I will gear my actions toward my survival and towards acquiring objects and friendships that remind me of how much I value my life. Working towards a free society, for example, is a great way to express your self-esteem in action because in that kind of society, you own yourself, keep what you earn, and trade using currency that is actually worth something, unlike modern American fiat dollars that are symbols of the national debt owed to the federal reserve banks. I believe that one's life is an artwork in progress, a blank canvas that you fill as you go along. I don't know everything that I will fill mine with yet, but I do know that I refuse to accept a non-capitalist society, for such a society cannot have a good future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betsy Posted August 6, 2004 Report Share Posted August 6, 2004 Maslow eh? In psyc I remember though I liked his chart the teacher's examples of the "self actualized" were Mother Teresa and Gandhi. Ugh... Mother Theresa was your teacher's addition, although Maslow did include some people I would question too. With that disclaimer, Maslow had some excellent choices and many interesting historical observations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearster Posted August 7, 2004 Report Share Posted August 7, 2004 Let's just say that I disagree that Maslow is basically a good guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted August 7, 2004 Report Share Posted August 7, 2004 Betsy"Do you want to write? Teach? Run for office? Start a business? Be an artist? Scientist? How do you plan to achieve the goals you aspire to?" Room for all of those in a lifetime Betsy ...starts of in pharmaceutical company, plays piano and continues web blog to eleviate stress - hits 50s and decides to run for local office, takes up professoral place following landslide defeat in liu of 'the people's candidate' popular victory... Dies age 97 having finished book 'What I plan to do when im 98'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepyop Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 An interesting question: Who were you most like prior to reading the books? I was very much like Irene in "The Husband I Bought." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaSheezy Posted August 12, 2004 Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 i was very much like dominique. the kind of person who would lead a rational life, but it would pain and elate me to meet another person who was like myself. i didnt want to see the world eat that person, or just be shown how much they dont appreciate and dont see greatness right under their nose. it took me a little while to realize its not their world that matters, but mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prae Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 i think i am somewhat like Roark. i am generally indifferent to things that don't concern me, and i am an individualist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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