North Korea Nuclear Testing Again!

[Axiomatic]

I read this article today. To think that this rouge, aggressively totalitarian state, who has an evil-maniacal dictator at its head, now has an even better nuclear capability which it is openly flaunting in our faces. What to do?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8066861.stm

Edited May 25, 2009 by Axiomatic

[Jake_Ellison]

The US has only one moral obligation: to not aid the North Korean State, in any way. That means a full, unilateral embargo. As for the countries in the region, let them sort it out among themselves. If our allies wish to forge a deal with China and Russia to participate in the embargo, we should aid their diplomatic efforts and then cooperate with all participants in enforcing the embargo.( But, as of yet, S Korea and Japan don't even have the political will to sever ties with the North themselves, let alone convince China to follow suit.)

Beyond that we should do nothing. We especially should not engage in any dialog or dealings with N Korea.

[2046]

We have missiles too. Why not do some of our own tests? Why not launch a missile of our own from the Sea of Japan over NK into the Yellow Sea? They don't have to carry warheads or anything, just "doin' some tests."

[Maximus]

We have missiles too. Why not do some of our own tests? Why not launch a missile of our own from the Sea of Japan over NK into the Yellow Sea? They don't have to carry warheads or anything, just "doin' some tests."

Because that would needlessly antagonize the Chinese. They have a crap-load of missiles.

[Wotan]

I think North Korea constitutes an objective and massive threat to South Korea, Japan, and even America. And it's only going to get much worse, and quickly. So I think South Korea, Japan, and America should reject the option of appeasing evil and living in nuclear terror. They need to properly defend themselves via a sudden, unexpected, overwhelming assault on North Korea's military and government institutions. We need to terminate this horrific menace once and for all.

Edited May 26, 2009 by GreedyCapitalist

[Maximus]

I think North Korea constitutes an objective and massive threat to South Korea, Japan, and even America. And it's only going to get much worse, and quickly. So I think South Korea, Japan, and America should reject the option of appeasing evil and living in nuclear terror. They need to properly defend themselves via a sudden, unexpected, overwhelming assault on North Korea's military and government institutions. We need to terminate this horrific menace once and for all.

Poking badgers with spoons?

Edited May 26, 2009 by Maximus

[Clawg]

One problem is that South Korea seems to want 'reunification' because they are 'one people'. But how is (re)unification possible if both countries share opposite values?

[Grames]

One problem is that South Korea seems to want 'reunification' because they are 'one people'. But how is (re)unification possible if both countries share opposite values?

Because they are racists, and being of the same race is all that counts.

[Wotan]

Poking badgers with spoons?

Poking a dangerous vampire with a deadly-sharp wooden stake.

[Axiomatic]

Poking a dangerous vampire with a deadly-sharp wooden stake.

Why bother when just dragging the monster into the light will do the trick?

[Wotan]

Why bother when just dragging the monster into the light will do the trick?

Your comment is certainly open to w-i-d-e interpretation Axiomatic, but I'm going to say I agree with it! South Korea, Japan, America, and all our allies need to loudly, proudly break relations with this odious, illegitimate dictatorship and vociferously morally condemn the tyrants and their top henchmen. We should also broadcast non-stop overwhelming propaganda into their nation via radio, t'v', and even leaflet drops. All the broadcast words should be true -- but all should be aimed at intellectually and morally devastating that loathsome government, and sparking a revolt. We should also express great sympathy with the mostly-innocent suffering people. This coupled with a pure trade boycott should end the regime peacefully. These tactics will, IMHO, effectively drag the vampire out into the sun, without us having to energetically stab with our pointy sticks.

[gags]

These tactics will, IMHO, effectively drag the vampire out into the sun, without us having to energetically stab with our pointy sticks.

I'm not so sure about that. Given the North Koreans' increasingly bellicose rhetoric, it wouldn't surprise me if they attacked the South or at least threatened to destroy Seoul when we ratchet up the pressure. I’m not against helping our allies if the North starts a war, but this is essentially a South Korean and a Japanese problem. Those two nations certainly have the economic power and wealth necessary to deal with the North.

[Clawg]

I'm not so sure about that. Given the North Koreans' increasingly bellicose rhetoric, it wouldn't surprise me if they attacked the South or at least threatened to destroy Seoul when we ratchet up the pressure.

What kind of pressure do you mean? They already canceled the non-agression treaty of 1953 and threaten to attack.

[Myself]

I'm not so sure about that. Given the North Koreans' increasingly bellicose rhetoric, it wouldn't surprise me if they attacked the South or at least threatened to destroy Seoul when we ratchet up the pressure. I’m not against helping our allies if the North starts a war, but this is essentially a South Korean and a Japanese problem. Those two nations certainly have the economic power and wealth necessary to deal with the North.

Don't forget, Japan has very limited military capacities, and S. Korea is under the constant threat of nuclear attack. I doubt those two nations alone have the ability to hold off an aggresive N. Korea.

[gags]

What kind of pressure do you mean? They already canceled the non-agression treaty of 1953 and threaten to attack.

Wotan suggested that we start a trade boycott and increase our condemnation of the regime in the North. If we do that, we need to be ready to respond if the North attacks.

Don't forget, Japan has very limited military capacities, and S. Korea is under the constant threat of nuclear attack. I doubt those two nations alone have the ability to hold off an aggresive N. Korea.

True. Given the threat they face from NK, both nations have neglected their defense capabilities for years. We should encourage them to increase their ability to defend themselves and to deal with both NK and the growing possibility of a more militant China.

[Myself]

True. Given the threat they face from NK, both nations have neglected their defense capabilities for years. We should encourage them to increase their ability to defend themselves and to deal with both NK and the growing possibility of a more militant China.

It's illegal for Japan to have an army.

[Thomas M. Miovas Jr.]

North Korea is doing even more saber rattling in the face of the strong stance the world is giving it -- eh hem....

One cannot appease these rouge nations and expect them not to toe the line when they will not fear any type of meaningful retaliation. They even threatened US warships in the area.

Time to negotiate! I mean, what would the world think of us if we chose to protect ourselves!

[K-Mac]

I don't know why anyone's worried about it, really. The UN can handle this! "Stop, or we'll say stop again!"

[Jake_Ellison]

It's illegal for Japan to have an army.

Well then maybe they should consider changing that law, now that a mad dictator is threatening to nuke them. We also have a law limiting our military budget to 400 odd billion bucks, but when we decide we need more, we change the law. It's not that difficult to do.

[Myself]

Well then maybe they should consider changing that law, now that a mad dictator is threatening to nuke them.

It's not up to the Japanese. Talk to the UN. They're the ones who wrote their Constitution. The ban is left over from after WWII.

"The Japanese people forever renounce war as a sovereign right of the nation and the threat or use of force as means of settling international disputes" and "land, sea, and air forces, as well as other war potential, will never be maintained."

Edited May 27, 2009 by Myself

[Clawg]

Maybe they should make it illegal for North Korea having nukes

[Jake_Ellison]

It's not up to the Japanese. Talk to the UN. They're the ones who wrote their Constitution. The ban is left over from after WWII.

The Japanese government is elected by the Japanese people, and there is no means for the UN to affect it or the country itself whatsoever. That, logically, means that anything they do is entirely up to them, and it most certainly in no way up to the UN. (it would probably make sense to clear a big military investment with the US administration, but that's more out of politeness toward their biggest ally. Plus, I don't think the US would object in any way, we're desperately in need of serious allies)

[edit] I see that Clawq just summed it up much better above.

Edited May 27, 2009 by Jake_Ellison

[gags]

It's not up to the Japanese. Talk to the UN. They're the ones who wrote their Constitution. The ban is left over from after WWII.

In recent years there has been some discussion of changing their Constitution. Now would be a logical time to do it. If a nation chooses pacifism in the face of aggression, it's not up to us to continue to protect them.

[Grames]

Interesting comment I read somewhere: "These are not test firings, they are sales demos."