Popular Post JMeganSnow Posted December 14, 2014 Popular Post Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 So, time to kick off this Advice thing. If you have a question for me--specific and personal are best--throw it out there and I'll answer it as best I can (eventually). I don't pretend to be an expert on anything in particular, so what's the point of this exercise, you may ask? It's really for me to do my best to show *how* I arrive at my notions. Why is this instructive or of any value? Because the hardest part of answering any particular issue about life is in deciding what is and isn't *essential*. You have to go from the particular (your problem) to the abstract (the essential principles involved) to the particular (the application of that principle). This is a process that must be practiced. A lot. It is CRUCIAL to understanding and applying Objectivism because the connection between the particular and the abstract is THE fundamental, defining factor of the philosophy. So the purpose, as I see it, of this advice forum is NOT the value of the SPECIFIC advice (although I do hope that anybody asking a question does at least get SOMETHING out of it), but by trying to illustrate this process of concretization and abstraction as much as possible. So, our first question:Dear Jenni This year I turned 30, and loved it. Every year I feel better about myself and happier to keep on living. Each passing year seems to open up the world in broader ways than the year before -- I learn more, and inevitably recognize more how little I actually know, which has the effect of making the world seem more full of opportunity. But, starting around age 28, my body began making me notice it. Jump off a 3ft.-something, and there's a sharp pain back there, which doesn't go away for four days. Aren't sleeping tonight? Good luck recovering from that in less than a week. Wtf is this splitting pain in my skull? Oh, sure glad that went away as mysteriously as it appeared... six weeks later. Etc. Now I have this conflict and dichotomy where I'm increasingly excited about living, while growing more and more uneasy (legitimately afraid?) about my apparent impending body breakdown. Ironically, I was born with a gimp heart which needed two operations. But, it never impeded my life, so I never thought of myself as deficient -- until The Pains started coming two years ago. Is my fear realistic? Should I accept or even be glad for my uneasiness about it? I don't feel glad about it. I think there's something I'm missing in my view of mortality, or something else? --JASKN So, to start us off, I'm going to summarize this question as essentially asking: "This aging and death thing, how should one feel about it?" In my experience, everyone has awareness of mortality more or less forced on them at some point in their lives. How exactly this happens (heart operations, physical pains, in my case a horrible movie I saw when I was 11) may have some personal importance but isn't really essential to the overall issue at hand, which amounts to a realization that the decay and end of one's existence, while inevitable, isn't exactly something that anyone could realistically anticipate with any enjoyment. This is an interesting question (and, I think, a good one to kick this off) because fear or dread of mortality is something that I have a rich (if that term applies to something so unpleasant) and varied experience with. I'll get to my more poetic expressions that I find the most helpful in dark moments in favor of a more analytical approach at first, in keeping with my ideas for this "Ask Jenni" business. So, the very first thing to do when applying one's analytical powers to a subject should always be to ask, what are the facts of the matter? Which is always a great excuse to produce a list. Note that this is not intended to be an *exhaustive* list, just an *illustrative* one. So, some facts on aging/death (which JASKN has pretty much already supplied): 1. It's inevitable. 2. It diminishes or even completely removes one's capacities for action. 3. Much of one's joie de vivre is dependent upon one's capacity for action. Well, put that way, it sounds kind of grim, but I want to submit a fourth (and, I think, significant) fact for your consideration: 4. Fretting oneself about things one can't change only has the effect of destroying the capacities and enjoyments one still has, making one grumpy, crotchety, miserable, unpleasant, and possibly even hastening said inevitable decay and demise. So, in short, the principle this falls under is basically: "you can't do anything (ultimately) about it, fretting makes it worse, so the only thing to do is to toss it out of your list of things to worry about and get on with your life". So, there's the analytical bit taken care of. Clearly I have fixed everything. Well, no, because an important factor remains that affects one's life but that the analytical bit *doesn't* dispense with, because fretting about something is an *emotional* response, and like all emotional responses cannot simply be turned off--not even if you know they're ridiculous. Maybe even especially if you know they're ridiculous. You can toss it out again and again (getting madder and madder at yourself each time), but until you resolve the underlying conflict it's going to pop right back up again. Of course, this is also where things start getting kind of fuzzy. But here's (some of) my perspective, and I hope it helps: I suspect this kind of anxiety ultimately derives from a subtle mental habit of viewing life and death (or youth and age) as a trade-off, as if they were options on a bargaining table. If you're viewing them (even very slightly) in that way, getting older seems like one heck of a lousy deal. Youth gets all the good stuff, and old age gets maybe that wisdom thing. Unless, of course you go senile. In reality, though, that is *not* the trade that life offers to you. It's not a question of "I can be young and awesome, or I can be old and suck", but between "I can get older and enjoy it as best I can, or I can just die now and miss out on something awesome". Staying young isn't on the table. Not dying at all isn't on the table. To view things with equanimity, whenever that feeling of worry or dread comes up, remember the deal that is *really* on the table, not the one you would *like* to be on the table. It won't fix everything instantly. You may never *entirely* reach some kind of Buddha-like state where the anxiety never impinges on you again, but what happens is that you develop practice at facing the fear head-on, seeing it for what it really is, and letting it go so you can hurry up and get back to the awesome. And, like anything, practice makes it easier. Boydstun, softwareNerd, James M and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JASKN Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 In the meantime, I have listened to The Beach, by Neville Shute. What is the point of this book, you say? Why, it's to illustrate that we're all going to die! The plot literally goes: Nuclear bombs already happened, lower hemisphere survived, can calculate radioactivity spread rate, know death date, do regular activities still because nothing else to do, everyone dies. THE END. No, I did not know this beforehand, it was a "lucky" coincidence. I had realisic dreams for three nights in a row where life stuff happened but I thought, "Well, no biggie, I know for sure I'll be dead tomorrow anyway, like everyone else, from that radioactive dust cloud. Everything will be over." I do not recommend this book for anyone having this same issue! I hadn't considered the False Tradeoff dilemma, but it does seem like I've been doing some of that. I'll check back in once I'm able to draw any further conclusions from that perspective. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softwareNerd Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 One thing about death: you can be sure you won't be sad when it happens . Easy Truth and JASKN 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JASKN Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 One thing about death: you can be sure you won't be sad when it happens . That's true, though you wouldn't have known it from the narrator's somber drawl for the last half hour of Shute's book! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softwareNerd Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) That's true, though you wouldn't have known it from the narrator's somber drawl for the last half hour of Shute's book! I've only read the first 40 or so pages, even though I enjoyed his "Trustee from the Toolroom" and "Town called Alice". With death, I reckon it is the anticipation that causes the emotions. Personally, when I think about it, the part I don't look forward to is not death itself, but a possible few months or years of total senility near the end. I see no point in just hanging around in a wheelchair, with other people having to help me with simple tasks, and with me not even having the desire to focus even on the simplest type of TV program. Or, worse still, being senile enough to be imagining things, and having psychosis-like episodes (basically, slightly loony). Yet, even here, I realize that it is the anticipation more than the event. The person who has reached that state is often not even self-conscious of it and therefore not exactly as impacted emotionally as the people around him. So, perhaps even that slow dying is not too uncomfortable. That leaves me with painful death: don't want that... because I'll know it is happening and feel the pain. Edited February 10, 2015 by softwareNerd Easy Truth 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JASKN Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 I've only read the first 40 or so pages[...]Damnit, I figured it would be obscure enough, but I guess I should have used the spoiler tags! I can't say I'm sorry I read the book, but I can't put my finger on why. I suppose I shouldn't say more, so the subtleties aren't spoiled for you. With death, I have conflicting feelings, so I suppose I have conflicting thoughts somewhere. I don't fear death, and when I think of life being over I mostly just feel sorry that it couldn't go on longer, to enjoy more things. I don't even really fear for the possibly painful end, as I'll (hopefully) just arrange to take a syringe at that point. It's when I think about (and possibly exaggerate) the slow deterioration, basically from now until the end, is when other things pop up: some anger that it's happening, feeling helpless that I'm not able to reverse or stop physical breakdown and decay, and then sometimes at the end of these types of thoughts a deep sadness that the universe will just swallow me back up. So, perhaps it is the anticipation. Maybe there will be a tipping point where I accept and stop being bothered by it. For now, conceiving of my life with a definite end is newly-considered, and I obviously have not settled with it internally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrictlyLogical Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Damnit, I figured it would be obscure enough, but I guess I should have used the spoiler tags! I can't say I'm sorry I read the book, but I can't put my finger on why. I suppose I shouldn't say more, so the subtleties aren't spoiled for you. With death, I have conflicting feelings, so I suppose I have conflicting thoughts somewhere. I don't fear death, and when I think of life being over I mostly just feel sorry that it couldn't go on longer, to enjoy more things. I don't even really fear for the possibly painful end, as I'll (hopefully) just arrange to take a syringe at that point. It's when I think about (and possibly exaggerate) the slow deterioration, basically from now until the end, is when other things pop up: some anger that it's happening, feeling helpless that I'm not able to reverse or stop physical breakdown and decay, and then sometimes at the end of these types of thoughts a deep sadness that the universe will just swallow me back up. So, perhaps it is the anticipation. Maybe there will be a tipping point where I accept and stop being bothered by it. For now, conceiving of my life with a definite end is newly-considered, and I obviously have not settled with it internally. Jaskn: I just read this over and it rambles on a bit. I hope it is useful. My main point is coming to terms with death does not require any diminishment of life or your love of it. Learn also to accept and fight for every moment... As a human being whose standard is life, all your planning, energies, efforts, etc. are aimed at continual flourishing, in the long-term. This is perfectly natural in fact it is morally virtuous. You are lucky to have discovered morality and reality. Accept your love of life. Comments above are completely perfectly valid, inevitability of death and the very real souring and tainting of life that morbidity, anxiety, fear, and obsessing on death can bring about. I have not thought of this to any real deep degree but perhaps the customary stages of grief for a loved one's death are somehow applicable for the DEATH OF THE IDEA OF IMMORTALITY you may have experienced so long ago when you became (assuming you were raised religious) a full fledged atheist. You may be thinking now that you have gone though all the stages, are at the rational acceptance stage you should be done with it. Here are a few thoughts, not fully integrated but which may be useful. 1. Cherishing life and wanting to continue another second, day, year decade, from now is natural and virtuous. 2. Accepting death as your ultimate fate is rational... it is inescapable reality. 3. Notice that any tension between the 2 above can arise from some misdirected thoughts: The ultimate "end" or "purpose" of your life is not temporally speaking the end/final moments of your life. The fact that the conclusion of your life is a death does not mean it was all for nothing. It is not the same as working toward an end goal in mind, like building a tower, where if the tower crumbles before you finish you fail. Every moment of your life IS in a sense the goal of the act of LIVING. It spans every second, every decade, you have alive. It's all you have. The goal is to live it to the fullest (and make it last at the fullest). So in some sense cherishing every moment you have is independent from the fact that they are finite. Someday death may be your immediate concern and with effort (and perhaps chance) you may escape to live another day, but right now death is not your immediate concern, and being concerned with it can only lessen life. Part of living means loving life, so while you are coming to terms with death and accepting its reality, you must also come to terms with your love of life and your fight to survive. Accept that as well. It is not an ignoble fight: exercise, eat well, laugh, go to your doctor, these things are not ineffectual denials of death they are effective weapons to extend life. Take your fear and turn it into passion. Every second you extend your life you win a small victory over oblivion. In some sense it is a wonder you were ever here... all those unthinking molecules floating in the nebula that gave birth to our sun never had a clue... Now that you are here, you need to extract from existence as much as you can.. and laugh as you go! TiffanyClaraJ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JASKN Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 (edited) [...]Every moment of your life IS in a sense the goal of the act of LIVING. It spans every second, every decade, you have alive. It's all you have. The goal is to live it to the fullest (and make it last at the fullest). So in some sense cherishing every moment you have is independent from the fact that they are finite. [...R]ight now death is not your immediate concern, and being concerned with it can only lessen life. Part of living means loving life, so while you are coming to terms with death and accepting its reality, you must also come to terms with your love of life and your fight to survive. Accept that as well.[...] Take your fear and turn it into passion. Every second you extend your life you win a small victory over oblivion.[...] There was a small oversight which kept your post hidden for a while, but after reading it I wanted to thank you for your additional perspective. [...P]erhaps the customary stages of grief for a loved one's death are somehow applicable for the DEATH OF THE IDEA OF IMMORTALITY you may have experienced so long ago when you became (assuming you were raised religious) a full fledged atheist. You may be thinking now that you have gone though all the stages, are at the rational acceptance stage you should be done with it. It's almost passed the time I can blame religion for things in my life (having eradicated a lot of it), but one of my relatives around the same age and with the same religious upbringing as me is going through the same issues. So, maybe there's something to this. Edited March 16, 2015 by JASKN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMeganSnow Posted March 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 Also, it's perfectly all right to occasionally experience negative emotions about growing old and dying. In my experience, the goal is not to perfectly eradicate all bad feelings (which may be impossible and induce unnecessary guilt), but to master them so that they don't come to dominate and squelch the good ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.