How much education do we OWE our children?

[Doug Morris]

58 minutes ago, InfraBeat said:

I told you where he said it. OPAR quoting Rand.

I meant if someone shows me a place where he has already said what I would want to say to him.

1 hour ago, InfraBeat said:

I don't see anywhere that you address that 'man' is defined in terms of 'rational' and 'rationality is defined in terms of 'reason', which is defined in terms of 'man'. 

I said that this needs to be fixed by defining reason in terms of "the", not "man".  More clearly, in terms of "the senses", not "man's senses".

 

[Doug Morris]

1 hour ago, InfraBeat said:

What dictionary was that?

She didn't specify.  I've been told by a less prominent Objectivist source "the older, the better".

 

[InfraBeat]

1 hour ago, EC said:

I'd like to know how you define "logic in the "ordinary" sense" if it's not a direct restatement of Aristotle's definition of logic like Miss Rand's is?

(1) Whatever Aristotle said, the word 'logic' has a common meaning and also is used in the field of study in way that is basically aligned with that common meaning, as I adduced a number of definitions when you asked me about this the first time. (2) What definition of 'logic' by Aristotle do you refer to? (3) Even granting that Aristotle's notion of necessity differs in certain ways, do you think his notion is not generally aligned with the notion of entailment? 

1 hour ago, EC said:

There is no other definition by essentials of logic

(1) The dictionary definitions look pretty good to me at getting to the essentials. 2) The point was not even as to essentionality or any other criteria. Merely I said that Rand's definition is not the common definition. 

1 hour ago, EC said:

although there is more specialized meanings like various types of formal logic etc but we are speaking of logic in it's widest most essential meaning that directly applies to what rational beings use in the process of rational abstract conceptual thought.

And my point did not enlist specialized non-Objectivist meanings. As I said, the Objectivist definition is not the common definition. 

 

Edited August 4, 2023 by InfraBeat

[InfraBeat]

1 hour ago, EC said:

she did cite which dictionary but that is the definition of selfish by essentials and without spin.

(1) I don't have the book 'The Virtue Of Selfishness'. Would you please quote the book saying which dictionary she meant? [Or maybe you meant to say 'did not'?] (2) That you think the common definition is not by essentials or is spin, doesn't change the fact that Rand's definition is not the common definition. (3) That you think that Rand's definition is by essentials and without spin is evidence that she referenced a dictionary that did not include the "exclusively" part. (Maybe she did, and maybe there was or is such a dictionary, but there's no evidence of it yet here.)

1 hour ago, EC said:

Just because people use words in slang ways doesn't mean it constitutes a definition by essentials of a concept.

The dictionary definitions are not slang.

1 hour ago, EC said:

The "common" usage is a smear against the concept of self/ego/consciousness/soul of an individual. It's a direct attack on a rational being's individual self and rational egoism that smears and falsely conflates it with a brutish criminal when it actually the complete opposite.

I don't agree. But even if I did, it's not the point. The point was merely that the Objectivist definition (whether one likes that definition or not) is not the common definition (whether one likes that definition of not).

 

Edited August 4, 2023 by InfraBeat

[InfraBeat]

32 minutes ago, Doug Morris said:

I meant if someone shows me a place where he has already said what I would want to say to him.

Got it. Thanks.

32 minutes ago, Doug Morris said:

I said that this needs to be fixed by defining reason in terms of "the", not "man".  More clearly, in terms of "the senses", not "man's senses".

Yes, I recognized that. Meanwhile, my comment pertained to Rand's and Peikoff's (which, if I recall, are quotes of Rand) own definitions as they gave them.

Edited August 4, 2023 by InfraBeat