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Hamas Wins In West Bank Elections

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4534224.stm

Palestinian militant group Hamas has won a sweeping victory in municipal elections in the West Bank.

[...]Israeli officials have warned that the peace process will end if the group becomes the dominant Palestinian political party.

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I like to go to this site for the what i think is a objective view of whats going on with the war on Terrorism.

http://debka.com/index.php

Iraq’s Zarqawi Sets up Gaza Branch at Palestinian Base

Since early December, a branch of Abu Musab al Zarqawi’s al Qaeda in Iraq has been running a forward base in Gaza City preparatory to in-depth attacks in Israel,

http://debka.com/article.php?aid=1122

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  • 1 month later...
I like to go to this site for the what i think is a objective view of whats going on with the war on Terrorism.

http://debka.com/index.php

Iraq’s Zarqawi Sets up Gaza Branch at Palestinian Base

Since early December, a branch of Abu Musab al Zarqawi’s al Qaeda in Iraq has been running a forward base in Gaza City preparatory to in-depth attacks in Israel,

http://debka.com/article.php?aid=1122

Nice of them to set up a site that Israel can send a missile to destroy. ;)

Hamas winning the elections is an obvious travesty of the election process. But the opposition was the other predominant terrorist group, Fatah.

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Fatah hasn't killed any Israeli's in a decade? Have you ever heard of Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades? It's the militant wing of Fatah.

And if you think Likud is fascist, why don't you take a look at your theocratic Palestinian buddies who are in the forefront of the current jihad-against-cartoons in the Muslim world.

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Fatah hasn't killed any Israeli's in a decade? Have you ever heard of Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades? It's the militant wing of Fatah.

And if you think Likud is fascist, why don't you take a look at your theocratic Palestinian buddies who are in the forefront of the current jihad-against-cartoons in the Muslim world.

1. There is no official connection between Fatah and AAMB. AAMB members tend to come from Fatah, yes, but the organisation is not run by Fatah. You can argue what some members have been qouted as saying, or minute, supposed financial transactions may mean, but the fact remains the AAMB is not a military arm of Fatah.

Here is the relevant qoute from the BBC -

"The brigade is neither officially recognised nor openly backed by Mr Arafat and Fatah, though brigade members tend also to belong to Fatah, the Palestinian leader's political faction."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1760492.stm

2. "Theocratic buddies", I like that. ;)

3. Likud, or rather its direct ideological descendants and current leadership are fascist. Have you ever heard of men like Jabotinsky, Begin, Kook, Kahane?

Come to think of it, the national socialism of the Left's Labour Zionism wasn't that great either.

It must be nice to be so assured of your side's righteousness. Without it there would have been no genocide of the Canaanites, no expulsion of the palestinians in 47-49, and the true democratic, secularly, and racially open nature of Israeli society could be thrown into doubt by jewish human rights groups.

Edited by StarBuck
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1. There is no official connection between Fatah and AAMB. AAMB members tend to come from Fatah, yes, but the organisation is not run by Fatah. You can argue what some members have been qouted as saying, or minute, supposed financial transactions may mean, but the fact remains the AAMB is not a military arm of Fatah.

Here is the relevant qoute from the BBC -

"The brigade is neither officially recognised nor openly backed by Mr Arafat and Fatah, though brigade members tend also to belong to Fatah, the Palestinian leader's political faction."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1760492.stm

Bullshit. Nothing that the PA does is "open." The CIA doesn't recognize NOCs either, but would you be willing to argue that they aren't connected to the CIA? It's all behind closed doors. You don't think Arafat was in bed with Al Aqsa?

The BBC is hardly an unbiased source. A few weeks ago I was on their website, and they had a picture of Israeli soldiers with a caption reading, "Israeli soldiers are notorious for shooting unarmed children." So, if you want to make a point, try finding a more objective source.

2. "Theocratic buddies", I like that. :P
I was proud of it, myself.

3. Likud, or rather its direct ideological descendants and current leadership are fascist. Have you ever heard of men like Jabotinsky, Begin, Kook, Kahane?

Come to think of it, the national socialism of the Left's Labour Zionism wasn't that great either.

Ever herad of Arafat, Erekat, Zahar, and Husseini?

It must be nice to be so assured of your side's righteousness.
It is, actually. You must know, since you're guilty of the same thing.

Without it there would have been no genocide of the Canaanites, no expulsion of the palestinians in 47-49, and the true democratic, secularly, and racially open nature of Israeli society could be thrown into doubt by jewish human rights groups.

Don't even start bringin up alleged sins of the past. First of all, the Palestinians were not expelled.

I don't doubt that Israel has problems. But they pale in comparison to the problems of the Palestinians. So Israel is a Jewish state...it still allows religious freedom. The Palestinians would not. So Israel doesn't allow non-Jews to become full citizens...the Palestinians would either relegate all non-Muslims to the status of second class citizens or just kill them.

I think you're forgetting that the Palestinians sided with the losing side of BOTH world wars. People that do such things are not typically rewarded. Instead, they lost land that they considered theirs. It is hardly an isolated incident; the redrawing of boundaries after a war has been a common practice since the beginning of civilization. I also feel obliged to point out that Israel is the only nation in world history to give up part of its land to an enemy, after defeating that enemy in war.

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Without it there would have been no genocide of the Canaanites, no expulsion of the palestinians in 47-49, and the true democratic, secularly, and racially open nature of Israeli society could be thrown into doubt by jewish human rights groups.

The first thing to understand is that racially speaking, there is no such thing as a Palestinian, they are what you would call displaced Syrians who have formed their own political identity. The second thing is that when the Palestinians were not kicked off of their lands, the West Bank and Gaza Strip were handed over to Jordan and Egypt, so any grevences that the Palestinians have during that period are to be taken up with their fellow Muslim countries, whom have basically been using them as a political tool as they always have. And the final note is that Israel is 10,000 times the open secular culture that Palestine is, you have travelers coming in and out from dozens of countries, you have open trade, and women are not treated like property to be disposed of at will. In Palestine, if they are consistant with the system of law they live under (Islamic Law), a person could be executed for playing chess.

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Fatah hasn't killed an Israeli in a decade. Also, was it a travesty for the fascist Likud party to win?

Look up "Fascism" in a dictionary, Likud mathes the precise definition.

Absolute bull.

Fatah is the major party spawned by Arafat, responsible for the killing of many Israelis; the "fact" that they haven't killed an Israeli in 10 years does not excuse their atrocities and legitimize them.

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Absolute bull.

Fatah is the major party spawned by Arafat, responsible for the killing of many Israelis; the "fact" that they haven't killed an Israeli in 10 years does not excuse their atrocities and legitimize them.

So if I understand your position it is something like this

1. Person X was once a terrorist

2. Terror is the antithesis of legitimate politics.

3. Once a terrorist, always a terrorist

4. Person X can not therefore be a legitimate politician

Do you know the history of Likud, its founders and leaders?

If so, you would have to concede no member of Likud or the greater Revisionist spectrum is legitimate given points 1-4.

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1. Person X was once a terrorist

2. Terror is the antithesis of legitimate politics.

3. Once a terrorist, always a terrorist

4. Person X can not therefore be a legitimate politician

You are setting up a strawman argument here. This discussion is centered around a set of specific facts and contexts, not the set of general premises you outline above. If you are going to summarize your understanding of someone's position, do so based on their position, not a fallacious generalization.

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So if I understand your position it is something like this

1. Person X was once a terrorist

2. Terror is the antithesis of legitimate politics.

3. Once a terrorist, always a terrorist

4. Person X can not therefore be a legitimate politician

Do you know the history of Likud, its founders and leaders?

If so, you would have to concede no member of Likud or the greater Revisionist spectrum is legitimate given points 1-4.

The one thing here that is interesting is that you have not defined exactly what constitutes a terrorist. Most of the Likud party people that you are accusing of commiting acts of terrorism were waging war upon an enemy that was invading their country. And as for the non-combat civilians in Palestine whom were probably victimized while Israeli troops tried to hunt down Hamas and Islamic Jihad members, most of those people supported the attacks on Israel, wich gives me little sympathy for them. But even considering that, there is obviously a clear distinction to be made between intended civilian targets and colateral damage.

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