a personal note

[The Wrath]

As you may know, I got married in March 2007. Towards the end of the year, my wife began to act strange and has since moved into her own apartment, and we will soon be filing for divorce. In the end, it seems that she was too extroverted and I too introverted for us to be happy together. It would have been nice for these differences to drive us apart before getting married, but we had never lived with each other long-term until this past May.

Some of you may be tempted to say "told you so," since I was repeatedly warned about the dangers of marrying a Catholic. Well, if that's what you're thinking, please keep it to yourself...our religious differences were not the cause of this. In retrospect, I realize that it was a mistake for me to stay in a relationship with her, but not for this reason. After we had been together for so long, I sort of felt like I was in a state of inertia. I always loved her, but knew that we might have problems down the road. I was hoping we could work through those problems. I gambled and lost. I am aware of my mistakes and am now paying the price. Please don't rub it in.

I've, naturally, been rather down lately. I was fine for a while, but it didn't really hit me until the past couple of weeks. I'm not suicidal or anything, but I find myself moping around a lot. I keep myself pretty busy during the week, but weekends have become torture. Any words of wisdom from people who have gone through similar situations would be appreciated.

[JMeganSnow]

Give yourself permission to mope if that's what you feel like doing. For me, it always helps to devote some time to thinking about it. You'll feel worse in the short term, but you're feeling bad because, perhaps, you haven't resolved your emotions yet, and it's been my experience that you can't do that until you really dig into them.

I don't know much about *divorces*, in particular, but you may want to consider that part of what you're feeling may be *guilt*. That's a tough one for me to deal with, I don't know about you, because it's often hard to tell just how much guilt you deserve in a given situation. Just remember that you have no control over your wife's behavior, so it's your own behavior that you need to be concerned with. You say she was acting strange . . . how were you acting?

[The Wrath]

She would go to loud parties with lots of people, and I would stay at home because I don't like that sort of thing. We've always had the kind of relationship where we do things on our own without the other person feeling jilted, so I didn't think it was a big deal. Whenever I asked if it bothered her that I didn't go to parties w/ her, she said she didn't mind. Then she started being gone all the time and hardly ever being at home. That's when it started to be weird.

Do I feel guilty for not making more of an effort to go to her social gatherings? Yes. But it would have been nice to know how much it bothered her...or that it bothered her.

[Maarten]

It seems to me that it wasn't so much the introversion/extroversion thing that was a problem, but lack of communication (either on her part, or on both your parts, that's kinda hard to say without knowing more). I think if you had talked about these things you probably could have worked out some compromise that was acceptable to you both and that would have allowed both of you to get your needs met.

I'm really sorry to hear that it did not work out for you, though I hope you can get through this tough time in your life without being too scarred by it... I wish you all the happiness =)

[Alethiometry]

It's rough being in a relationship with an extrovert when you're introverted. I'm introverted and find extroverts to be pretty exhausting at times. Over time, I figured out that I can't imagine myself living with an extroverted man. My old coach described his relationship with his introverted wife to me once. He said that sometimes they didn't talk to each other for hours when they were in the same house and did their own thing for most of the day. That sounds really ideal to me. Maybe you can gain some insight on what is ideal for you regarding the level of introversion in a partner from this situation.

[The Wrath]

Lack of communication was definitely an issue, but I think our social differences were the larger issue. She's very much a people person and I'm...well...not. She needs lots of friends, whereas I preferred to just spend my time either alone or with her. I figured this would eventually cause problems, but I also thought she would outgrow her party-going stage. I'm sure she still will, but I was planning on being there when it happened. At any rate, I didn't expect it to cause problems this soon.

It's rough being in a relationship with an extrovert when you're introverted. I'm introverted and find extroverts to be pretty exhausting at times. Over time, I figured out that I can't imagine myself living with an extroverted man. My old coach described his relationship with his introverted wife to me once. He said that sometimes they didn't talk to each other for hours when they were in the same house and did their own thing for most of the day. That sounds really ideal to me. Maybe you can gain some insight on what is ideal for you regarding the level of introversion in a partner from this situation.

It will probably be a long time before I find myself another partner, if at all. My introverted nature does not lend itself well to meeting people. A lot of people at work share my personality characteristics, and there are quite a few attractive women there...they just all happen to be taken.

[Maarten]

It's rough being in a relationship with an extrovert when you're introverted. I'm introverted and find extroverts to be pretty exhausting at times. Over time, I figured out that I can't imagine myself living with an extroverted man. My old coach described his relationship with his introverted wife to me once. He said that sometimes they didn't talk to each other for hours when they were in the same house and did their own thing for most of the day. That sounds really ideal to me. Maybe you can gain some insight on what is ideal for you regarding the level of introversion in a partner from this situation.

That's not necessarily the case for all introverts, though. I'm a very strong introvert myself but for some reason this feeling of being drained or exhausted doesn't apply to my partner. Of course, if the other person needs many people around them for the vast majority of the day that'd be different, but I think two introverts (or an intro/extro couple) can be perfectly happy spending every minute of the day together.

But ick, the thought of having guests over all the time is making my tummy hurt. Heh.

[aequalsa]

Some of you may be tempted to say "told you so," since I was repeatedly warned about the dangers of marrying a Catholic. Well, if that's what you're thinking, please keep it to yourself...our religious differences were not the cause of this. In retrospect, I realize that it was a mistake for me to stay in a relationship with her, but not for this reason. After we had been together for so long, I sort of felt like I was in a state of inertia. I always loved her, but knew that we might have problems down the road. I was hoping we could work through those problems. I gambled and lost. I am aware of my mistakes and am now paying the price. Please don't rub it in.

As a disclaimer, I do not intend this as a "told you so", especially because I don't think I ever did, but I question in my mind whether the religious aspect was an issue, if only indirectly.

What I mean is, that her acceptance of an arbitrary claim means that on some level you both accepted that some things can't or don't need to be worked out. That 'agreeing to disagree' is an acceptable approach to problems. In my experience relationships that lack the ability to workout problems also lack the ability to choose a common direction, and people moving in two different directions can't remain close for very long.

So while it, in and of itself may have not been a cause of discord, it may have set the precedent for the lacking communication which is evident now in regards to your introversion/extroversion issue and possibly other things, since that is probably not the only issue the two of you have had.

Regarding your actual question, I would suggest, as Megan did, that you spend time introspecting, as these complex problems are rarely able to be resolved in a moment or a thought. I'm in no place to assign blame, but I would suggest that it would be healthy for you to try to delineate between what parts of the relationships failure you could take responsibility for and those which you truly could not have changed. This process of realizing your part in this, is beneficial in that it allows you to realize how much you do control, not just in the relationship, but also in the choosing, and that because of this power, you can do it better next time. That of course, allows you to move forward.

It will probably be a long time before I find myself another partner, if at all. My introverted nature does not lend itself well to meeting people. A lot of people at work share my personality characteristics, and there are quite a few attractive women there...they just all happen to be taken.

Two words for when you are ready to try to meet more people-Swing Dancing!

[~Sophia~]

I find myself moping around a lot. I keep myself pretty busy during the week, but weekends have become torture. Any words of wisdom from people who have gone through similar situations would be appreciated.

If you want to be a bit more in control of your emotions, when you are feeling down, find your personal keys to restoration (let's call them that) which are sense-stimulating activities through which you will be able to somewhat dependably make yourself feel better/more balanced. It can be a movement (dance, brisk walk ect), or a movie which you have found motivational in the past, energizing or soothing music depending which would work better for you - something like that. By all means allow yourself to feel grief just that you may not want to drown in it.

I would avoid, at this time, going over and over the details of what happened, why it happened, what you could have done to prevent it from happening. Instead, I would leave that for later on when things won't be so fresh. For now, I would just recommend acceptance of current circumstances. What you need is a renewed hope for the future (none of this thinking how hard it will be for you to find another partner - you may get very suprised!), even though it is different from the one you used to imagine.

If weekends are very hard - do some planning to fill them up with activity.

[The Wrath]

What I mean is, that her acceptance of an arbitrary claim means that on some level you both accepted that some things can't or don't need to be worked out. That 'agreeing to disagree' is an acceptable approach to problems. In my experience relationships that lack the ability to workout problems also lack the ability to choose a common direction, and people moving in two different directions can't remain close for very long.

I think that whenever 2 human beings plan to spend the rest of their lives together, agreeing to disagree is the only way to work through certain issues, because no 2 people are exactly alike. With all the debates about various topics on this messageboard, I think you can see that this would be true even among 2 dedicated Objectivists.

We didn't think that the religious issue "didn't need to be worked out." We both realized that, at some point, it would (probably when it came time to think about children). It had occurred to me that it could end up causing us to split up, but we weren't planning on children for at least 5 years or so, so I thought we had some time to get our issues worked out. If nothing else, we could have had 5 more years of happiness together before going our separate ways. Basically, my philosophy on this issue is that it was worth a shot, even if it may not work out in the end.

So while it, in and of itself may have not been a cause of discord, it may have set the precedent for the lacking communication which is evident now in regards to your introversion/extroversion issue and possibly other things, since that is probably not the only issue the two of you have had.

In my personal probably very biased opinion, the lack of communication was one-sided. I'm well aware that I made many mistakes, for which I accept full responsibility, but I place the blame for lack of communication squarely with her. I was behaving in a way that I should have known not to behave...but since I didn't, she should have discussed it with me instead of purposely distancing herself from me and eventually deciding to leave. If we'd talked about, it would have given me a chance to change my behavior.

Regarding your actual question, I would suggest, as Megan did, that you spend time introspecting, as these complex problems are rarely able to be resolved in a moment or a thought. I'm in no place to assign blame, but I would suggest that it would be healthy for you to try to delineate between what parts of the relationships failure you could take responsibility for and those which you truly could not have changed. This process of realizing your part in this, is beneficial in that it allows you to realize how much you do control, not just in the relationship, but also in the choosing, and that because of this power, you can do it better next time. That of course, allows you to move forward.

This is what I've been doing lately. Immediately after she left, it was almost a relief. We had still been living together, though she rarely spent the night here anymore, but I still constantly had to talk to her and ask if she was coming home, etc. Now, I don't do that anymore, although a lot of her things are still here. But it was a relief to not have to wonder whether she'd be coming home and to finally have it be over. I treated myself to a lot of things that I could never have done while she was here...for instance, buying a new couch, 47" HD TV, and a Playstation 3, and renting a $1600/month apartment. There was an almost celebratory aspect to my behavior right after she left. I've never really been independent until now. By the time I was fully weened from my parents, after grad school, we were already deep in the planning stages of our wedding. So, before now, I've never been able to truly do what I want, when I want, without asking someone's permission.

The past couple weeks, however, I've been doing a lot more thinking. It's been hitting me a lot harder lately than it did right after she moved out. A couple nights ago, when I finally forced out of her the reasons for her leaving, she used the exact words "I don't want to be with you." Hearing her say that hit me really hard...I already knew this was how she felt, but hearing her explicitly say it made it hurt a lot worse.

And on top of this I keep picturing her having sex with other guys, which I know she will eventually do, if she isn't already.

Two words for when you are ready to try to meet more people-Swing Dancing!

Heh...I suppose throwing a stranger up into the air and having her come back down straddling you could have its romantic uses.

If you want to be a bit more in control of your emotions, when you are feeling down, find your personal keys to restoration (let's call them that) which are sense-stimulating activities through which you will be able to somewhat dependably make yourself feel better/more balanced. It can be a movement (dance, brisk walk ect), or a movie which you have found motivational in the past, energizing or soothing music depending which would work better for you - something like that. By all means allow yourself to feel grief just that you may not want to drown in it.

I would avoid, at this time, going over and over the details of what happened, why it happened, what you could have done to prevent it from happening. Instead, I would leave that for later on when things won't be so fresh. For now, I would just recommend acceptance of current circumstances. What you need is a renewed hope for the future (none of this thinking how hard it will be for you to find another partner - you may get very suprised!), even though it is different from the one you used to imagine.

If weekends are very hard - do some planning to fill them up with activity.

This is good advice. One of my friends (I call him that even though he went to the University of Texas) is trying to hook me up with a girl he works with...not sure if I'm ready for that, but part of me thinks it would be a welcome distraction.

[aequalsa]

I would avoid, at this time, going over and over the details of what happened, why it happened, what you could have done to prevent it from happening. Instead, I would leave that for later on when things won't be so fresh. For now, I would just recommend acceptance of current circumstances.

If I understand correctly,I disagree with this in part. Avoiding things until they are so far away that you memory of events and feelings becomes suspect allows, for me, a tendency towards compartmentalization of the emotions and automated emotional reactions to triggers you're not aware of later as a result. Way harder to figure out causation at that point.

Of course, as a caveat, don't allow introspection to become dwelling. If there is no progress or further understanding then distractions as Michelle recommends are good ways of taking a break from the process.

[Zip]

Moose, I don't know you or any more about your situation than what you have offered up here so I will just take the time to pass on my condolences and to tell you that it will get better, and you will find that someone eventually.

I know this may seem cliché, but I won't fall into the trap of internet psychoanalysis.

Take care, be well and have some fun.

Zip

[~Sophia~]

Avoiding things until they are so far away that you memory of events and feelings becomes suspect ...

True but waiting that long is not the only alternative to my advice. I would think it would be impossible to not do some thinking about the causes (just like Moose has already done) but running over them and "what ifs" in your mind over and over is not productive (like people tend to do in such situations) as it sets one back in the process of getting over a loss because it maintains strong emotions at a time when the last thing you want is more fuel on an emotional fire (not to mention the fact that under such strong emotions objectivity is often hard to maintain). Acceptance is the best band-aid for a strong heartache.

[The Wrath]

I agree with Sophia on this. I know what the issues were that caused my current situation, and I don't want to dwell on them. I need my time to grieve, but I don't want to succumb to the "if only" syndrome.

[4reason]

I think a clash of introversion/extroversion tendencies can cause difficulties in any human relationship (we've all worked on a group-project in school, for example, where a clash of personalities in this sense can really affect the responsibility load each member bears...), but this clash can be especially detrimental in meaningful friendships and romances. My three closest friends, in fact, are extreme extroverts: they live for their "network," and use those attachments to define themselves in ways that the non-Peter Keatings among us would not. (Though allow me to issue the disclaimer that I am not contend that all socially-inclined people are needy in the way Keating was... but my friends seem to be, sadly). And they are, as mentioned in an above post EXHAUSTING for those of us that are introverts. Imagine someone like Mallory being friends with someone like Francisco! I think the problem more or less lies in the fact that how introverted or extroverted one is may reflect upon and stem from their sense of life (how they approach new things, danger, adventure, etc.). My experience with extroverts seems to indicate that they like the thrill of new things and have an insatiable sense for exploration and adventure in all realms (all you extroverts out there, feel free to intervene with your comments). We introverts, on the other hand, tend to prefer laying out predictable courses, and having all necessary information before taking any risks. We still try new things, yes, but to a lesser extent and definitely less often. A clashing sense of life, as any objectivist will agree, seems to make meaningful human relationships impossible to achieve. I would suggest that that played a pretty big part in the crumblings of your relationship, which I am sorry to hear about. Religious differences could reflect a different sense of life, too, but I would prefer to judge people for how they act in accordance to their beliefs, so religion need not be hinged upon as a pivotal factor.

But I would certainly concur with Megan's advice: go ahead and experience your emotions, work through them, analyze them, conquer them... in other words, introspect. Isn't that something we introverts love to do anyway ? Let your emotions be your reaction, but don't let them control your reactions, if that makes any sense at all. Introspection, I believe, is one of the greatest things mankind has the ability to do. The reflections upon one's errors made by the greatest geniuses in history (from Newton to Edison) have led to many of the greatest inventions and achievements in human histoty. Don't feel pressured into accepting anyone else's timeline for your "grieving" besides the one you set for yourself. You'll know when you've analyzed things and wallowed enough; introverts have a particular talent for that sort of thing.

[The Wrath]

I actually haven't done a lot of wallowing...even on my bad days, I'm only really down for maybe an hour at a time. Some of my friends have called me "emotionally dead." I guess they've got a point, since my Meiers-Briggs test showed a 30 for "thinking" and a 0 for "feeling." As such, it doesn't take me long to get over things. In the time since I posted this thread, I've pretty much quit caring about what she's doing. Maybe that's just a defense mechanism, but I'm not really that sad at the moment.

As for introversion vs. extroversion...I don't really know if I'm an introvert or not. I have been for most of my life, but that was largely because there were so few people I could relate to. I was always smarter and deeper than the people I was surrounded by. That isn't so anymore...everyone where I work is smart and enjoys intellectual conversations. I find myself hanging out with them quite often, and not feeling like I need to spend time alone. I just don't like being around the kinds of people my wife chose to hang out with.