Jump to content
Objectivism Online Forum

Retirement

Rate this topic


Mensch

Recommended Posts

As I get older, I am 63 now, I am thinking about the concept of retirement. I am an artist, independently working for my pleasure and my livelihood. Since I enjoy my work and have reached a nice level of confidence by having acquired a good set of skills, I see no reason what-so-ever to quit my work because I have reached a certain age. I could still work only using the computer if I need to for physical reasons. This work I do gives me satisfaction like nothing else can.

I look around me and see what mindless retirement does to people. Golf every day, idle chatter with neighbors, parties to get together to exchange banalities and get drunk. Those are the golden years? Those are also the people that have never really thought about much to begin with of course.

As a student of Objectivism I prefer to be an active and productive person. I could see people stop working when they are forced out by a system that does not let them work beyond a particular age. But what happens to all this knowledge a man has built over so many years?

I thought this might be an interesting topic to discuss, to find out how Objectivists think about retirement. What are the values you gain from not working? What would you do instead of your work? Is it desirable to switch as an example into cause taking and focusing all your efforts on those areas that are important to you, like spreading the ideas of Rand?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought this might be an interesting topic to discuss, to find out how Objectivists think about retirement.

Optional. If you love what you do and there is nothing else you want to spend your time doing ...

What are the values you gain from not working?

Some people pursue interest which they did not have time for up until now. I have known a person who went back to college full time. Another one decided to sail the world for few years.

Is it desirable to switch as an example into cause taking and focusing all your efforts on those areas that are important to you, like spreading the ideas of Rand?

For someone - it may be.

------------------------------------------------

This is a question you have to answer for yourself.

Edited by ~Sophia~
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is a question you have to answer for yourself.

I did, but I wanted to see how other people think about this applied to themselves. As a young person I decided to pick a profession that would not force me into retirement (under the current system), that is why I chose to be independent, not employed by somebody :)

I wondered if other people take those thoughts into consideration when they make their choice about their profession.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Retirement can be as vegetative as you describe for people who are basically zeros. Yeegh.

It also could be a welcome chance to pursue a passion that (alas) doesn't make one enough money to live on; there are a lot of those--mostly regarded as hobbies. I know of at least one Objectivist intellectual who became such after retiring from his previous work. (It appears he is managing to make a living from it but I believe his previous career was far more lucrative.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I plan on never retiring since whatever work I plan on going into wouldn't require much physical stamina (though tons of mental stamina :-)). In my personal experience with people around me, I've seen that most don't actually want to retire; they just mistake the desire as such and what they really want is a one or two (or three) week vacation. I've heard of one guy who sold his business to a couple only to turn around and become an employee! My own grandfather continued working full-time in his profession despite retiring from it and my grandmother simply traded her full-time job for a part-time job when she retired.

But all in all, as Sophia said, whether or not you want to retire it is up to you. I would think that if people explicitly identified and pursued their life's purpose then they probably wouldn't wish to retire.

I know of at least one Objectivist intellectual who became such after retiring from his previous work. (It appears he is managing to make a living from it but I believe his previous career was far more lucrative.)

Would you happen to be talking about John Allison?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It also could be a welcome chance to pursue a passion that (alas) doesn't make one enough money to live on.

Bingo.

According to Objectivism, productivity is a major virtue. That means that, in principle, one cannot live without it. But productivity does not mean making money, it means bringing one's values into existence. I think of retirement as the point where I have made enough money that I can de-emphasize monetary returns when deciding where to spend my time. That's all. The process of pursuing values is something I plan to continue until they nail me into my coffin. (Rand was the same way -- she was engaged in systematic study of higher mathematics, as a base for further work in epistemology, right up until a few months before she died.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought this might be an interesting topic to discuss, to find out how Objectivists think about retirement. What are the values you gain from not working? What would you do instead of your work?
Well, I look forward to retirement because then I will be able to pursue my career full-time rather than part-time. For economic reasons, I wouldn't do it now, but at a point in the future, I'll be able to drop the stuff I don't like doing but that is part of the job, and focus on what I love doing. For example, while I enjoy teaching, there are aspects of it that I can do without (the whole customer satisfaction thing, when students don't want to learn), and the service stuff is definitely not anything I want to pursue.

I don't know what it would mean for you to retire, given what you've said about what you do and make your money. Do you do less desireable jobs just to pay the rent?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know what it would mean for you to retire, given what you've said about what you do and make your money. Do you do less desireable jobs just to pay the rent?

I think to retire for me would mean that my world would fall apart really. I have set up my life in such a way that I do what I love most. I have supported myself with this work for three and a half decades now. I never gave up, never took on a job, I bit myself through obstacles so that I could concentrate on improving my skills while also earning a living.

At the beginning of my career I worked in big industry (car design), but the politics drove me nuts. So when I had the opportunity to quit I did just that. With the knowledge of how bad things can get working for a corporation, I planned on never having to do so again.

I watched the other designers from back then as our lives flew by. They stuck it out and many are retired now. They all said that they wanted to have the security of a job, the benefits. They all said that they would in retirement do what they could not do on the side and wished they could. Most had big plans. And then reality hit. All the skills that were necessary to fulfill their dreams were not there. Life of leisure got in the way, illnesses started to pop up. Many became also just dull people, the daily grind of holding a job that became routine wore them down. There was a giving in to mediocrity for the sake of security. The fire went out.

That is IMO the reason to really think about how to step into the world of jobs when young, life can grind people to a stump. Dreams get lost in this process of making enough income to have all the things one likes to have to live in comfort. It can be a vicious trap.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...