Thomas M. Miovas Jr. Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Today, the US Senate passed the Obama Stimulus Package and I think we will be paying for this for a very long time. I'm not sure of the details, but obviously Obama et al will want to control the economy further and make this part of the relief effort. The Bill still has to go to the House for approval, but I doubt there will be any significant changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordr Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Dow is down 346. Lots of confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prosperity Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Today, the US Senate passed the Obama Stimulus Package and I think we will be paying for this for a very long time. I'm not sure of the details, but obviously Obama et al will want to control the economy further and make this part of the relief effort. The Bill still has to go to the House for approval, but I doubt there will be any significant changes. If you saw his address to the nation last night, he has drawn a line in the sand - clearly - against the free market (not that you couldn't guess that before now). He remarked that (and I am paraphrasing) there are those who believe that the Government should do nothing and let the free market do its work. That, he said, is not an option that is being considered. If you are willing to agree that the Government must do something, he said, then he is willing to negotiate on the particulars. He also quickly blamed the entire economic problem on Wall Street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-Mac Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 There are so many parts of the "stimulus" bill that I simply love, but this one has to be right up there amongst my favorites... http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...id=aLzfDxfbwhzs Senators should read these provisions and vote against them because they are dangerous to your health. (Page numbers refer to H.R. 1 EH, pdf version). The bill’s health rules will affect “every individual in the United States” (445, 454, 479). Your medical treatments will be tracked electronically by a federal system. Having electronic medical records at your fingertips, easily transferred to a hospital, is beneficial. It will help avoid duplicate tests and errors. But the bill goes further. One new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and “guide” your doctor’s decisions (442, 446). These provisions in the stimulus bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed in his 2008 book, “Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis.” According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and “learn to operate less like solo practitioners.” Keeping doctors informed of the newest medical findings is important, but enforcing uniformity goes too far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zip Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Newsflash! US government spends $306,000,000,000 fighting for freedom in WW2 Then spends $800,000,000,000 (and counting) 64 years later to try to reverse that principled position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thales Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Newsflash! US government spends $306,000,000,000 fighting for freedom in WW2 Then spends $800,000,000,000 (and counting) 64 years later to try to reverse that principled position. Is that adjusted for inflation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zip Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Is that adjusted for inflation? No, 306 billion was worth 306 billion in 1945 and 800 billion is worth 800 billion today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ers Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 (edited) It's always amusing to watch the Yahoo Finance take on things. Stocks tumbled on Tuesday with the Dow and the S&P 500 down more than 4 percent, as bank shares slid on concerns that a plan to shore up the financial sector may not be enough to loosen up credit and contain the deepening recession. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Wall-St-tumb...b-14312204.html Right Yahoo. Has nothing to do with the stimulus bill. Edited February 10, 2009 by ers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 It should come as no suprise to any of us here that this slightly polished turd passed. The political whores in Washington don't know economics from a hole in the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fountainhead777 Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 the bill is just looting of the taxpayers. There is very little stimulating spending in there. Obama's great claim of infrastructure spending is only about $90 billion out of the $838 billion. The actual bill is nothing but special-interest spending and adding controls to markets and everyday life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softwareNerd Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Here's an idea, that I borrowed from the "Rational Capitalist")... Any burglar who has spent his loot on consumption, and can show that the source of his loot was not planning to spend it, will have the burglary charge dropped and instead be commended for stimulating the economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wrath Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 It should come as no suprise to any of us here that this slightly polished turd passed. The political whores in Washington don't know economics from a hole in the ground. You're giving them too much credit. They understand economics perfectly well. They also know that demagoguery is the only way they stay in office. People are generally too uneducated to understand anything more than the immediate goals. If a bill is passed that will "give everyone health insurance," the only thing the average voter cares about is that everyone will be officially on the roles of the "insured." They don't stop to think--or don't know enough to think--about the resultant loss in quality and dramatic increase in demand. Long-term consequences are beyond the mental horizons of 80% of voters. Politicians can only get reelected by pandering to the dumb masses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'kian Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 If you are willing to agree that the Government must do something, he said, then he is willing to negotiate on the particulars. Of course we're willing to agree the government must do something: it should protect individual rights. That alone is better for the economy than any trillion plus dollar package anyone could come up with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benpercent Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 I feel a little flustered that this article took so many days to get posted online; I wanted to blog about it before the senate took the vote. To it sum up, the majority of the economic stimulus isn't for economic stimulus and a good chunk of the funds aren't to be spent until next year or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wrath Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 I'm not sure why so many people are shocked that this is a pork bill. When I think "economic stimulus," I immediately picture the government throwing tax dollars into the economy, in some form. A more interesting stimulus bill would be a moratorium on income tax worth $800 billion...I'm guessing that would be 6 months-ish. Then let people spend the extra money however they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 (edited) I'm not sure why so many people are shocked that this is a pork bill. When I think "economic stimulus," I immediately picture the government throwing tax dollars into the economy, in some form. A more interesting stimulus bill would be a moratorium on income tax worth $800 billion...I'm guessing that would be 6 months-ish. Then let people spend the extra money however they want. Add the Corporate Tax and that would be a plan. Makes too much sense though. Snowball/Hell. Edited February 11, 2009 by Maximus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake_Ellison Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 This is too much. It's going to kill investment into the US economy. There's no way investors are stupid enough to volunteer to pay this debt back in the next few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prosperity Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 This is too much. It's going to kill investment into the US economy. There's no way investors are stupid enough to volunteer to pay this debt back in the next few years. ...and not to mention that new like this is absolutely dismissed or not even covered by the major news networks: TARP Stake Values Have Plunged Looks like we are already losing money on this deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 I got a server error from your link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake_Ellison Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 I got a server error from your link. try again, it works for me ( in Int. Explorer). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Same deal: Server Error in '/' Application. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Index was outside the bounds of the array. Description: An unhandled exception occurred during the execution of the current web request. Please review the stack trace for more information about the error and where it originated in the code. Exception Details: System.IndexOutOfRangeException: Index was outside the bounds of the array. Source Error: An unhandled exception was generated during the execution of the current web request. Information regarding the origin and location of the exception can be identified using the exception stack trace below. Stack Trace: [indexOutOfRangeException: Index was outside the bounds of the array.] Summit.MOSS.WebParts.ArticleWithPagination.ArticleWithPagination.GetPreviousPageKey() +540 Summit.MOSS.WebParts.ArticleWithPagination.ArticleWithPagination.BuildAdChannel() +446 Summit.MOSS.WebParts.ArticleWithPagination.ArticleWithPagination.BuildAdTag() +49 Summit.MOSS.WebParts.ArticleWithPagination.ArticleWithPagination.CreatePageSections() +428 Summit.MOSS.WebParts.ArticleWithPagination.ArticleWithPagination.CreateChildControls() +300 System.Web.UI.Control.EnsureChildControls() +149 System.Web.UI.Control.PreRenderRecursiveInternal() +71 System.Web.UI.Control.PreRenderRecursiveInternal() +239 System.Web.UI.Control.PreRenderRecursiveInternal() +239 System.Web.UI.Control.PreRenderRecursiveInternal() +239 System.Web.UI.Control.PreRenderRecursiveInternal() +239 System.Web.UI.Control.PreRenderRecursiveInternal() +239 System Must be my computer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-Mac Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0209/18668.html Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee warned supporters Tuesday that the $828 billion stimulus package is “anti-religious.” In an e-mail that was also posted on his blog ahead of the Senate’s passage, Huckabee wrote: “The dust is settling on the ‘bipartisan’ stimulus bill and one thing is clear: It is anti-religious.” The former Republican presidential candidate pointed to a provision in both the House and Senate versions banning higher education funds in the bill from being used on a “school or department of divinity.” Well, one good thing about the "stimulus" bill?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prosperity Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 I got a server error from your link. haha you having problems again with my links? http:// www (dot) lifeandhealthinsurancenews (dot) com/News/2009/2/Pages/Board-TARP-Stake-Values-Have-Plunged.aspx Cut and paste, that should work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softwareNerd Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 http:// www (dot) lifeandhealthinsurancenews (dot) com/News/2009/2/Pages/Board-TARP-Stake-Values-Have-Plunged.aspx Cut and paste, that should work. It's not the way you linked, it is that site itself. I found that the link works at time and does not work at others. In fact, if one gets the error, hitting "refresh" will bring up the article. To summarize, that article notes that the market value of the TARP assets has fallen. It mentions that Paulson said the government would not lose money. There is no surprise there. Markets go up and down, and Paulson never suggested that they would not. What he did suggest was that the final realized amounts will not be less that the govt's purchase price -- something that won;t be known for a while. In fact, Paulson may turn out to be right, but that will still remain a secondary issue. The real issue was the act of taking on the "toxic" assets in the first place. Today's business news noted that the govt. is dropping the term "toxic asset", and will now use the term "legacy asset". Even the "troubled asset" "TA-rp" is out the window. Instead, the program will be called "Financial Stabilization Program". With these new names, we should all sleep better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Slavery=freedom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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