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The Psychology Of Metal Music

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First off, I like music. And I do like popular music, including jazz and pop.

But I find much of the so-called music called "metal" and its similar forms of abject noise to be beyond appalling. It's nothing I can't resolve, however, by pressing the station button on my car radio or switching it off.

I personally find it insulting as a musician hobbyist that anyone dares call the noise put forth by Metallica, Megadeth, Kiss, and others like them "music."

As far as "psychology" I find that such "music" strongly favors death and is anti-sense-of-life. It's no wonder many brainwashed young people like this noise- perhaps it gives then a sense of relief from the misery of their daily "lives."

My take. ;)

Chromatic doesnt mean bad, although some people dont seem to like it very much.

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I just got my Progressive Nation Tour tickets the other day. I urge all of you to check this out. 3 of the most musically inventive and talented metal bands alive all in one night. Between the Buried and Me is an indescribable metal band who can switch from crushing thrash/death brutality to a Coltrane-esque smooth jazz bit or even a hillbilly blues jam in the same song, executed with masterful precision and planning. Opeth is a Swedish deathmetal band who employ the use of classical and jazz guitars in their songs. Their singer can switch from guttural, demonic growls to warm, angelic clean vocals in a split second. They are also one of the best examples of counterpoint employed in modern music. Dream Theater is an American progressive metal band formed in the 80's. They are known for the extreme virtuosity they each display in their respective instruments, and for mixing every kind of music imaginable into the metal genre. Anyone who believes that metal music is worthless, buy some tickets for Progressive Nation '08. They're only like $20 for general admission (I bought the better seats for $65 though :D).

BTBAM

Opeth

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I saw Megadeth, In Flames and Children of Bodom on Wednesday, and I sort of regret it. I feel guilty about it. There is no doubt that metal predominantly exudes a malevolent sense of life, with exceptions that are few and far between. If music is "metal" enough to be classified as such, then I don't think it's unreasonable to also lump the entire genre into one category and label it immoral in general, which, yes, would make it anti-Objectivist. I know a lot of you are saying "there's no such thing as Objectivist music", but I wouldn't say that's true. Anything that's moral would be Objectivist. And no, science doesn't know enough on the subject to make absolute claims about the goodness or badness of music, but that doesn't mean we can't judge it for ourselves, and that doesn't mean that the negative affects of music aren't glaringly obvious. Anyone who's made any real attempt to analyze music for its sense of life, would see the philosophical abstractions songs represent. That doesn't even take into account the obviously primitive beats that work towards disintegrating your mind, the repetitive thumping and banging that is characteristic of metal. Metal music measurably fits a certain category rhythmically, which is how we know to label it "metal". So if we can say that a certain category of rhythms are simple and degenerative for most people, then we can say that Metal, too, is degenerative for most people. Doesn't music either works towards integrating or disintegrating your mind or, at best, have no effect? And if metal generally works towards disintegrating your mind, then it's immoral. Let's be serious here. Look at it this way, we can say that Rand was the most "Objectivistic" Objectivist who's ever lived. She created the damn philosophy. So how would she react to metal? She'd hate it. it's anti-Objectivist.

For those who say that they listen to metal because they appreciate the technicality of the song, or skill of the musician, or the composition in general without taking heed of the lyrics, I'd say these are all rationalizations. Nobody listens to music at any great length unless it appeals to their sense of life. You wouldn't be able to. You'd get bored. Music tends to be a very personal thing for people and nobody spends great amounts of time listening to stuff they don't truly agree with subconsciously. For the same reasons, not too many people are going to decorate their house with technically masterful paintings of vaginas or dead people, if the abstraction doesn't appeal to them. For the same reasons, not too many people will make a habit of reading well written books on subjects they have no interest in. Anyone who says otherwise, in my opinion, is just rationalizing the fact that they like it, because they're afraid of the consequences of owning up to it. You hear this often from people who are not confident in claiming what music they enjoy. They'll say, "Uh, I like it for the beat only". No you don't. You like the songs! I appreciate fancy woodworking, but I don't go to wood sculpture shows regularly or sculpt anything, because it's not something I value. I may claim to disagree with the message in the songs I like, but my subconscious agrees. it would be too annoying to listen to if it didn't affirm your sense of life. People are very selective about music and are quick to discard of anything that doesn't appeal to them.

One other thing to keep in mind, there cannot be a great discrepancy between the sense of life and the composition. The composition is what it is because of the composers sense of life. The parallels are consistent. So you're not going to have someone screaming angrily that life is great and they're happy with life. Such a thing would be a joke and you'd burst out laughiing. Similarly, you don't get musicians singing jubilantly about the hopelessness of life. The composition and SOL evoked are intrinsically related, and have to be in order for the song to be successful, I think. So I don't think anyone can claim to have an emotional connection to a song without agreeing with its SOL.

I do not think just a trivial matter of taste, like preference of clothing style, or decorating your house; it can have a profound affect on your life. Ask Kurt Cobain or Jimi Hendrix, or Lain Staley, or Jim Morrison.

People need to own up to the fact that they like metal for being metal. Not all metal is bad. And in fact, a lot of it is very uplifting and romantic, but most of it is not. And until people own up, they can't make the right decision to stop listening. I've made the decision, because I now am certain that it is unhealthy. If that's something you need to do, do it.

Edited by avampirist

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I saw Megadeth, In Flames and Children of Bodom on Wednesday, and I sort of regret it. I feel guilty about it. There is no doubt that metal predominantly exudes a malevolent sense of life, with exceptions that are few and far between. If music is "metal" enough to be classified as such, then I don't think it's unreasonable to also lump the entire genre into one category and label it immoral in general, which, yes, would make it anti-Objectivist. I know a lot of you are saying "there's no such thing as Objectivist music", but I wouldn't say that's true. Anything that's moral would be Objectivist. And no, science doesn't know enough on the subject to make absolute claims about the goodness or badness of music, but that doesn't mean we can't judge it for ourselves, and that doesn't mean that the negative affects of music aren't glaringly obvious. Anyone who's made any real attempt to analyze music for its sense of life, would see the philosophical abstractions songs represent. That doesn't even take into account the obviously primitive beats that work towards disintegrating your mind, the repetitive thumping and banging that is characteristic of metal. Metal music measurably fits a certain category rhythmically, which is how we know to label it "metal". So if we can say that a certain category of rhythms are simple and degenerative for most people, then we can say that Metal, too, is degenerative for most people. Doesn't music either works towards integrating or disintegrating your mind or, at best, have no effect? And if metal generally works towards disintegrating your mind, then it's immoral. Let's be serious here. Look at it this way, we can say that Rand was the most "Objectivistic" Objectivist who's ever lived. She created the damn philosophy. So how would she react to metal? She'd hate it. it's anti-Objectivist.

For those who say that they listen to metal because they appreciate the technicality of the song, or skill of the musician, or the composition in general without taking heed of the lyrics, I'd say these are all rationalizations. Nobody listens to music at any great length unless it appeals to their sense of life. You wouldn't be able to. You'd get bored. Music tends to be a very personal thing for people and nobody spends great amounts of time listening to stuff they don't truly agree with subconsciously. For the same reasons, not too many people are going to decorate their house with technically masterful paintings of vaginas or dead people, if the abstraction doesn't appeal to them. For the same reasons, not too many people will make a habit of reading well written books on subjects they have no interest in. Anyone who says otherwise, in my opinion, is just rationalizing the fact that they like it, because they're afraid of the consequences of owning up to it. You hear this often from people who are not confident in claiming what music they enjoy. They'll say, "Uh, I like it for the beat only". No you don't. You like the songs! I appreciate fancy woodworking, but I don't go to wood sculpture shows regularly or sculpt anything, because it's not something I value. I may claim to disagree with the message in the songs I like, but my subconscious agrees. it would be too annoying to listen to if it didn't affirm your sense of life. People are very selective about music and are quick to discard of anything that doesn't appeal to them.

One other thing to keep in mind, there cannot be a great discrepancy between the sense of life and the composition. The composition is what it is because of the composers sense of life. The parallels are consistent. So you're not going to have someone screaming angrily that life is great and they're happy with life. Such a thing would be a joke and you'd burst out laughiing. Similarly, you don't get musicians singing jubilantly about the hopelessness of life. The composition and SOL evoked are intrinsically related, and have to be in order for the song to be successful, I think. So I don't think anyone can claim to have an emotional connection to a song without agreeing with its SOL.

I do not think just a trivial matter of taste, like preference of clothing style, or decorating your house; it can have a profound affect on your life. Ask Kurt Cobain or Jimi Hendrix, or Lain Staley, or Jim Morrison.

People need to own up to the fact that they like metal for being metal. Not all metal is bad. And in fact, a lot of it is very uplifting and romantic, but most of it is not. And until people own up, they can't make the right decision to stop listening. I've made the decision, because I now am certain that it is unhealthy. If that's something you need to do, do it.

Metal is aggressive, intelligent, and it recognizes the darker side of life (sometimes even appreciates it, but not always.) So yeah, this appeals to me. Have you ever listened to happy poppy music about love and sunshine? It sucks ass. It's boring, stupid ear-candy which doesn't make you think about anything. A lot of metal music is about politics and religion (usually anti-religion) and controversial topics. It is the music of real life. War, suffering, loneliness, pain, loss, anger, these are all things that are all-too common in our day-to-day lives. I don't want to hear some new-age synth band singing about pupp dogs and balloons, because when I go outside I don't see puppies and balloons, I see spent bullet casings, graffiti, crumbling tenement houses, and broken dreams. Metal artists see these things too, and they say "this pisses me off, I'm going to voice my opinion on this matter, let people know what's wrong and how we can handle things." They don't always have the right idea on solutions, but they are active and thinking. Metal music is about taking control, taking the power, being the one that stands against the problem, be it war, religion, government, etc. Happy music is about being drunk and oblivious.

I believe that life can be beautiful and glorious, but right now it isn't. Not for me or anyone else I know. A lot of my friends are in Iraq right now, there are homeless people everywhere, crime rates are skyrocketing, I'm surrounded by bible-beaters, the world is falling into chaos, and I haven't been touched by another human being in a non-violent way since the 6th grade. I believe things can get better for me and I fight for that every day. I still have faith in the human race. But right now everything pisses me off. Once I get my music degree and move out of this hellhole maybe then I'll see what you see in happy music. But right now I've gotta go learn some Opeth solos so I can start a cover band and make some extra money over the summer.

P.S. CoB is a joke, not even real metal. They are nu-metal, a shitty offspring genre targeted at 12-year olds. Megadeth is really old and obnoxious, and In Flames hasn't put out a good album in ten years. Check out some Mastodon, Gojira, Atheist, or Dark Tranquility if you want real good metal.

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Avampirist, what do you mean by 'immoral' music? I know about immoral people and actions, but not about immoral art.

There is no doubt that metal predominantly exudes a malevolent sense of life, with exceptions that are few and far between. If music is "metal" enough to be classified as such, then I don't think it's unreasonable to also lump the entire genre into one category and label it immoral in general, which, yes, would make it anti-Objectivist.

Did you enjoy Star Wars? Did you enjoy Dostoyevskiy? If so, you've probably found value in them, in spite of the fact that they advocate values different from Objectivist ones.

That doesn't even take into account the obviously primitive beats that work towards disintegrating your mind

Oh come on, how can 5-minute track EVER disintegrate your mind?

the repetitive thumping and banging that is characteristic of metal.

That's simply false. Try albums of Deep Purple mk.II or Black Sabbath's Paranoid. Or Iron Maiden's Later albums.

Look at it this way, we can say that Rand was the most "Objectivistic" Objectivist who's ever lived. She created the damn philosophy. So how would she react to metal? She'd hate it. it's anti-Objectivist.

First of all, it's purely thought experiment, since Rand never spoke of rock since Woodstock. Second, hating metal just because Rand probably hated it is second-handed, don't you think?

For those who say that they listen to metal because they appreciate the technicality of the song, or skill of the musician, or the composition in general without taking heed of the lyrics, I'd say these are all rationalizations.

Some lyrics are just funny (like Iron Maiden's Prowler), some are social (like anti-war Black Sabbath's War Pigs or Ozzy Osbourne's anti-alcohol Sucide Solution). You generalize falsely. Moreover, you DO can just enjoy the music, believe the guy who doesn't understand them all well :D

They'll say, "Uh, I like it for the beat only". No you don't.

Do you claim you know me better than I do? Speaking of rock in general, I like Sex Pistols' God Save the Queen and Anarchy in the UK for great many things, but I am not an anarchist. Strange, eh?

I do not think just a trivial matter of taste, like preference of clothing style, or decorating your house; it can have a profound affect on your life.

And how soon will I start worshipping devil Kant?

Ask Kurt Cobain or Jimi Hendrix, or Lain Staley, or Jim Morrison.

Thanks, I'll better ask Eddie Van Halen, Paul McCartney, Ozzy Osbourne, Angus Young, Paul Dianno, Axl Rose, Alice Cooper...

People need to own up to the fact that they like metal for being metal. Not all metal is bad. And in fact, a lot of it is very uplifting and romantic, but most of it is not. And until people own up, they can't make the right decision to stop listening. I've made the decision, because I now am certain that it is unhealthy. If that's something you need to do, do it.

People need to own up to the fact that one can't replace Holy Bible with Atlas Shrugged and call oneself Objectivist. And in fact, a lot of them are very uplifted and romantic, but most are still puritans. And until they own up, they can't make the right decision to start thinking. I've made the decision, because I now am certain that it is unhealthy, If that's something you need to do, do it.

P.S.: Religion Run Amok banner spawned below. The time is right, for once.

Edited by lex_aver

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I think there is definitely a strong nihilistic strain in metal, and a lot of the sense-of-life of the music is about anger at the world, but I disagree with the notion that because of these things you can't find positive aspects to the music. In some respects metal is an expression of power and the joy of living. Not power over others, but power over ones life. It's an adrenaline rush. It's not about being weak and wimpy, it's about standing tall against the forces aligned against you, whatever they may be.

A lot of hard rock is that way also, metal just emphasizes it with extra vibrato. Metal is less about brains and more about brawn.

My point is, yes, I see the negative aspects of the music, and I see lots of brain-dead metal fans, too many, but I don't have to be one of those people. I can use my mind and extract the nectar from the fruit and leave the core behind.

Deep Purple, hmm, I don't think of them as metal. They are (were) a hard rock band and a supremely talented group. They could entertain. Check out there performance here:

Edited by Thales

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Well, Deep Purple is more of Hard Rock, but they, along with Black Sabbath, are considered fathers of Heavy Metal. Machine Head, for example, features very hard sound, comparable to the ones of Black Sabbath and Paranoid.

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Well, Deep Purple is more of Hard Rock, but they, along with Black Sabbath, are considered fathers of Heavy Metal. Machine Head, for example, features very hard sound, comparable to the ones of Black Sabbath and Paranoid.

Yeah, I can see that. Smoke on the Water is definitely moving into the metal realm:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jp3de50_d8...feature=related

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Yeah, I can see that. Smoke on the Water is definitely moving into the metal realm:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jp3de50_d8...feature=related

I prefer highway star, but any deep purple cut is welcome on my radio.

The thing about metal lyrics that you have to understand, is most of the time they are singing about things that piss them off. When they sing about oppression, its not that they are for oppression, they are denouncing it. Metal is the ultimate form of protest music, in this day and age. Rappers sing about how they themselves are corrupt and dangerous, metal musicians complain about these people.

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First, I must state my awareness of the fact that this topic is rather old. I do not expect any kind of response or lively debate, but I have been thinking about this topic for over a week now (off and on) and in order to satisfy my grievances I think that I must post my individual response.

To those attacking metal: I do not attack Indie Rock on music forums, or Barack Obama, and Marxism on Alternet.org because casting aside my personal tastes and philosophical beliefs (all those things suck) I have not done enough homework to hold a substantial argument. I have not read Das Kapital, I haven’t listened to more than maybe 3-4 hours of Indie rock, and I haven’t read any of Obama’s books. It might be wise to note that I recognize that the topics of Indie Rock and Barack Obama/Marxism are separate; I’m simply trying to make a point about doing your homework.

Furthermore, those who criticize metal seem to be entirely unaware of any “metal” bands outside groups in the following styles: Metallica/Megadeth, Cannibal Corpse, and Lamb of God. To your limited observations, those bands (or bands like them) define the world of “metal”.

I was rather relieved to see someone finally mentioned Symphony X and DragonForce. Another commentator listed some of the bands I am about to describe.

Listen to any of the following albums and tell me that “metal” is essentially the same as being kicked in the head and that all the lyrics are about nihilism and death. Any honest inquiry (which I do not expect, this is a mental exercise) will lead to another conclusion (not necessarily mine but not the general tone expressed on this thread):

If this doesn’t prove your point about metal consisting entirely of nihilism and death wrong, I have nothing more to say:

Helloween: Keeper of the Seven Keys: Future World

We all live in happiness our life is full of joy

We say the word "tomorrow" without fear

The feeling of togetherness is always at our side

We love our life and we know we will stay…

Along the same lines, if Dream Theater doesn’t establish that metal requires incredible amounts of technical ability and virtuosity...

Dream Theater: Metropolis Part 2: Scenes from a Memory (Jazz, Blues, Rag Time, and World Music themes)

Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence (especially the second disc, an exploration of metal illness and the trauma it causes for individuals and their loves ones)

Rhapsody (of Fire): Symphony of Enchanted Lands (I think fantasy is a powerful allegorical tool to convey concepts of happiness and good v. evil)

Andromeda: Extension of the Wish (super slick talented progressive metal)

Symphony X: The Odyssey (an entire album devoted to the Greek epic, a 24 minute epic concludes this masterpiece celebrating the “triumph of the champion of Ithaca”)

Kamelot: Karma, Epica (essentially a musical expression of Goethe's Faust)

Sonata Arctica: Winterheart’s Guild (happy power metal with lots of pop music hooks for those with short musical attention spans)

This list could go on. Essentially the point is this: apparently there about 18 people on Earth who even know that power metal and progressive metal exist (exaggeration).

I came to fundamentally oppose grouping all metal into the same predefined categories. Certainly metal exists with lyrical content about nihilism, death, and violence. I appreciate SOME of it for reasons that could start an entirely new topic. If I get a response I may choose to engage in that conversation.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1W56jrTF98

Octavarium, by Dream Theater. I challenge anyone to tell me that's a bad piece of music.

Metal happens to be one of my favorite genres, and I came from an almost entirely classical background (as one can see by listening to my musical compositions; I've posted a topic about my Symphony No. 2 here a while back). It was mainly the classical influences, incredible virtuosity and epic song structures that attracted me to metal in the first place. Regardless of the conflicts one may find between much of metal's lyrics and one's philosophical beliefs, there is some great music to be found in this incredibly diverse genre.

Edited by jcarey

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Don't forget that lyrics wise, you can't find an album with more sense of life than Dream Theater's Images and Words:

The unbroken spirit

Obscured and disquiet

Finds clearness this trial demands

And at the end of this day sighs an anxious relief

For the fortune lies still in his hands

Of course there are a large number of bands that sound like a smear of sound with hateful lyrics grunted loudly, but it's important to realize that these are not all that metal has to offer.

Look at it this way, we can say that Rand was the most "Objectivistic" Objectivist who's ever lived. She created the damn philosophy. So how would she react to metal? She'd hate it. it's anti-Objectivist.

This is as ridiculous as fundamental Christians doing exactly what they think Jesus would do, and often coming up wrong. Who cares whether Ayn Rand would have liked bands like Megadeth or Iron Maiden? I enjoy the music and they way the lyrics are put together, that's all the matters to me.

Edited by Quin

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The thing about metal lyrics that you have to understand, is most of the time they are singing about things that piss them off. When they sing about oppression, its not that they are for oppression, they are denouncing it. Metal is the ultimate form of protest music, in this day and age. Rappers sing about how they themselves are corrupt and dangerous, metal musicians complain about these people.

Precisely. Parts of Opeth's Still Life album may be interpreted at first glance as a bloody, violent, nihilistic rampage, but after reviewing all the lyrics one discovers that the album is actually the tale of two atheist lovers who are persecuted and killed by a fascist theocracy.

Still Life is the best metal album recorded in the last ten years, btw.

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Simply in the lyrical sense, there isn't another genre that embraces individualism more than progressive metal. It isn't simply the nihilistic punk rock false individualism either.

It often praises individuals who fight against unheard of battles, either from earthly armies, mystic creatures or the elements of the world themselves.

One of my favorite lyrics from a Dream Theater song

" As I Am "

I've been trying to justify you

In the end I will just defy you

To those who understand, I extend my hand

To the doubtful I demand, take me as I am

Not under your command, I know where I stand

I won't change to fit your man, Take me as I am

As I am

Still

Running uphill

Swimming against the current

I wish I weren't so

Fucked

Feels like I'm stuck

Lost in a sea of mediocrity

''Slow down,

You're thinking too much

Where is your soul?''

You cannot touch

The way I

Play

Or tell me what to say

You're in the way

Of all that I believe in

And Iced Earth has an excellent album that catalogs the war history of America in a glorious manner, from the Revolutionary War and the signing of the Declaration up to 9/11, and America's righteous hatred of it's enemies.

EDIT: That's " The Glorious Burden " for those interested.

Edited by TheEgoist

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I just purchased Opeth's Watershed today. It's a different direction for them, but on first listen I already think it's one of the finest records of their career. They also played magnificently in the Progressive Nation concert that in Boston, though Dream Theater was probably my favorite act of the night.

People often quickly dismiss things that they have no familiarity with. Many people I know have done that with Ayn Rand, quickly describing her philosophy as "trash" or what have you, having never read a page of her writings. The same applies to metal. Practically everyone I've known who has ever criticized my taste in music after hearing I was a fan of metal music merely hadn't been exposed to the good stuff, or had been given a bad introduction to it. Most of these people completely change their opinion when they're introduced to good bands in an intelligent manner.

To those who still can't appreciate it, that's your prerogative. I'm just happy to know that I enjoy it, because I'd be missing out on a lot of outstanding music if I didn't.

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Ragnar Danneskjöld always seemed pretty metal to me.

Not all metal is good. Some is trash. Alot of it gets portrayed as being anti life and nihilist, but the majority of what I listen to has a "kick ass as an individual" feel.

Of the many metal sub genres, power metal and the sub-sub genre, "hero metal" portray the most objectivist sense of life. But I also think that it comes down to being a generational thing as well. Since music hits your emotions first, different generations will naturally appreciate music differently since there are very different life experiences between them, regardless if they share the same underlying philosophy. I wouldn't expect my grandfather to like metal, regardless of how much we agree philosophically. He likes military marches and swing jazz. Horns vs. guitars. Go figure.

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IMO, there are a few things to consider about metal:

Wether or not you define certain genres of metal as music, I don't think that's the main point. If you don't want to place it under the concept of music you have to place it under some other term distinct from"noise". The question to be asked is not wether it is music or not, but rather, wether it is noise or not. An by its nature, its systematic arrangement of audible elements, it can in no way be compared to the non-periodic sound of a plane crashing or a crane falling to the ground.

The other thing is, what are the psychological effects it has on some people's minds?

There have been comments about "raw engergy" on this thread. Maybe to some it is. I would put it more precisely by stating, that it supports a view of yourself as a dominant being that is in control of nature, that is capable of adjusting the world around him according to his needs. Especially when you get freshly into that genre, coming from a more classical music style, you feel how it wipes away the sentimentality of a mindset, that is emotionally submisse towards nature. It erases any tradiotional fantasy of nature possessing intrinsic value, personality, soul, will, or anything of the like. It's no longer soft violines played in the flowergarden next to the sweet little pond. It's metallic, it's firm, strong, unshakable, just like the steel that skyscrapers and machines are made of. It supports the idea, that control IS possible, that nature does NOT strike back and that you as a human being are a can-doer. That you can use nature as a tool to your needs, rather than crumbling under it's assumed power over you. It also has something, what I might call "widening of the horizon", i.e. space-consuming, that when you listen to it, you realize that you're not standing in some swamp in the jungle, but in a huge, wide open landscape like the rocky mountains, a place where you can feel your power over nature large scale, with maybe oil wells in the background, powerplants here and there, huge satellite dishes everywhere, maybe you're driving through this place in a military humvee wearing some aviator sunglasses ;-) Just envision some place like the scene where the "Broken Arrow" movie was made to have an idea about the landscape, and then place all the rest into it. You'll feel the ridiculousness of an Ayatolla in this scene, knocking his head to the ground because of the alledged breath-taking beauty of nature, "Allah's creation". You'll throw your cigerette next to him while driving by, asking him to take his goats to the Denver countryside to graze and gaze, cause the Amish definately ain't livin' HERE ;-)

To some it might imply some sort of dryness. But it's a dryness that's beautiful and enjoyable, once you have learned to listen to it with the proper "ears".

I am not talking about the lyrics of most metal songs. I believe most of them are just the usual lefty-complaints about society or capitalism, I'm talking just about the instrumental part.

And as for the shouting and screaming, yes I also think it's rather dull and stupid, it harms the rest of the music because of the primitive Viking association it creates. That's why I prefer for example, the instrumental version of Metalllica's MI2-Soundtrack. Most metal is best, when it's just instrumental if you ask me.

Edited by JuleBrenner

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I realize that this is a very old thread, but after reading it through and also finding almost no mention of DragonForce on this site, I feel compelled to put my two cents worth in.

Here goes: Anyone who claims that metal is not music has not listened to Blue Oyster Cult, The Unforgiven, The Unforgiven II, Fade to Black, One, The Call of Ktulu, or To Live is to Die by Metallica; Through the Fire and Flames, The Warrior Inside, Reasons to Live or pretty much anything else by DragonForce; or Iron Maiden.

Hearing Metal insulted like that made me want to engage in some catharsis of my own, but then I read that it doesn't help and just listened to some music.

There's my thoughts on the subject; hopefully my digging this up will get some more constructive discussion instead of the ignorant hatred of metal which was expressed earlier.

Ultra Beatdown comes out on August 26th!

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I like metal but Dragonforce is heavily over-rated in my opinion. I've listened to an entire CD by them and there were few memorable moments, it all sorta sounded the same. The presence of electronic pitch-correction and over-dubbing was painfully obvious, it was like listening to a 80's metal version of the backstreet boys. I consider them more of a novelty then anything else.

I have come to really like a band called Arch Enemy, however. They use the aggressive death metal growls in all their songs, but the music is superb. The guitar playing is top-notch and usually very uplifting, and is played flawlessly live unlike Dragonforce who make an embarrassing amount of mistakes at live shows. The lyrics sometimes construe a negative, violent sense of life, but the main themes of their songs seem to center around volition, rebellion against tyranny, freedom, and self-control.

Excerpt from some of their lyrics:

Once lost – lost in their game

Mental chains breaking now

Set yourself free

Who are they to tell you what to do?

The stage is not set, the road is not chosen

You fate not preordained

They are losing control – every step of the way

There's also a lot of religious symbolism in their lyrics and they tend to use the word "anarchy" like it's a good thing, so I wouldn't call them Objectivist. But they're a really talented metal band who don't rely on cliches and random guitar wankery, so they get my approval.

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I apologize for making a huge over generalization of DragonForce's music. The songs of theirs that I enjoy are Through the Fire and Flames, Revolution Deathsquad, and Lost Souls in Endless Time from Inhuman Rampage; Soldiers of the Wasteland and Once in a Lifetime from Sonic Firestorm; Valley of the Damned, Starfire, Heart of a Dragon, and Where Dragons Rule from Valley of the Damned.

I had said that nearly all of their music was great, but I should have specified which songs I enjoy, as I now realize that I like about half of their songs.

May I ask which album you listened to? As you can see, I myself do not like most of their music. Listen to Starfire if you think that all of their music is the same (although you probably didn't mean that literally).

Listen to some tracks off of Ultra Beatdown. You can find them on youtube and some other sites. I will suggest The Warrior Inside, A Flame for Freedom, and The Last Journey Home. The band toned down the guitar solos some in this album to focus more on lyrics and melody (in my opinion).

Also, I realize that DragonForce makes a large number of mistakes in their very, very complicated music while playing live, but as I have not seen them live and listen to their recordings, it does not affect the spirit of the songs any for me.

Edited by Shinokamen

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