Jump to content
Objectivism Online Forum
Sign in to follow this  
haller

How does one find its values?

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

 

 

Hi, 

I came across Ayn Rand in high school. It helped me organise my life back then and gave a lot of motivation to achieve my goal which was studying abroad. Now I’m at university but it didn’t really make me happy. Probably because my expectations were too big. I mean it’s alright but I started doubting in my future career related goals and got trapped in some sort of nihilistic mood. I can’t find anything that makes my truly happy or values that are worth living. Don’t get me wrong, there are many things that give me joy, probably too many but this is short term unsustained happiness which I consider very immature and irrational, nothing to do with true happiness. The only happiness that I could think of now is spending all time on art and Philosophy and sharing thoughts with like-minded people that I have big problems to find. How can man find his values? I admire people who know who they are. I feel like I can be anyone but I don’t know who I want to be therefore I’m no one. Whenever I think I overcame that nihilism of mine with some solution then there’s always another “why” that I can’t find answer. Does being an objectivist mean that you have everything figured out in your head?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What are your career goals? Why are they your goals?

If you want to know who you are, ask yourself. Look at what you're doing.

Maybe you actually want to know whom you should become. It sounds like you want to pursue art and philosophy, so is that what you're doing in school?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, MisterSwig said:

What are your career goals? Why are they your goals?

If you want to know who you are, ask yourself. Look at what you're doing.

Maybe you actually want to know whom you should become. It sounds like you want to pursue art and philosophy, so is that what you're doing in school?

Due to rationality, I gave up on studying art and philosophy because even though I really enjoy it, it does not mean I am to become artist or philosopher. I could imagine myself struggling to make a good living. So since it was so risky I thought It would be rational to pursue profitable career and by achieving significant financial independence relatively early I can then focus fully on art and philosophy or finding other purpose. Before that I treat art and philosophy as hobbies. My career goals are more like milestones which will allow me achieve that financial independence. So I basically postponed current happiness to provide myself future one. That future career seems like something I will like because it is competitive and requires outperforming others both of which match my personality. Apart from that I like a mind game that I am playing quite a lot. However, my rational thoughts are that either of these things cannot be my purpose and me liking them is just a sign of immaturity and still low level of self-development because they are just shallow and meaningless, they don't make me any closer to finding fundamentals of reality, pure consciousness or fullness of meaning. On the other hand, perspective of me reading all books and learning to achieve full potential of my intelligence seems like dead-end job and does not make my outlook look very happy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, William O said:

You might find this blog post useful for figuring out a purpose for your life:

http://aristotleadventure.blogspot.com/2008/05/what-is-central-purpose-in-life.html

Great article, and I totally agree with its content but I struggle with the very first step, that is, finding my CPL. It seems like Roark and Rand knew from the beginning what their CPL are and they didn't need to find it. I hope you could answer a few of my questions and tell me what your take is on my several thoughts regarding this article.

 

1. How does one find its CPL? How did Roark find his? Was it because he was born with some natural talents related to architecture like drawing talent, spatial thinking and that? Then it would mean that not we but our qualifications that we are born with determine ourselves, our CPL. Obviously Howard must have come across architecture when he was young, liked it and then decided to pursue it. However, objectively speaking interests are not equal. Shouldn't one find then interest that is the most optimal one (the best interest out of all interests he can successfully pursue)? But then this optimalisation does not lead to genuine interest. However, genuine interest seems to be irrational because it simply means choosing something worse because you associate more positive emotions with it. I don't know there's some vicious cycle here that I cannot escape.

"First, it must be objective, that is, drawn logically from the facts of who you are, the nature of the productive activity, and the nature of the world in which you live" I find taking "nature of the world in which we live" into account quite contradictory to objectivism. I thought we should pursue our goals despite certain circumstances not adjust our goals to them. This adjusting leads me to conclusion that what can be our goals is predefined in certain sense and we can only decide whether to pursue fulfilling them. 

2. I think my greatest misconception is that I try to find something bigger, deeper that might not even exist instead of accepting shallowness of life. However, thought of doing something that I reasonably like for a living, have a family one day and have enough time and money for leisure and that's it, suffocates me. I don't know where that urge to be unique comes from and how to satisfy it or get rid of it.

3. Maybe I can't find my CPL because I feel I have very strong preference to learning, self-developing over creating. Obviously creating is very developing so I'll use an example to illustrate what I meant. I'd prefer to learn from numerous researches in certain field of study instead of doing my own research. I have always thought that while you are teaching (creating, researching etc.) you cannot get taught, therefore, I have been choosing the latter.

4. I have started doubting whether acting rationally is the right way. Vast majority of people do not act rationally, therefore, people who do, have the edge over them. This edge results in better performance in work or other activities, but what are rationale for work, other activities and living? Whenever I try to be rational about this I cannot overcome the argument that we are all going to die but what is more importantly, we are so irrelevant and tiny in the context of whole universe. So since I am here, yet alive, I'd like to pursue my own happiness, but that absurdity of our life stops me from getting any real happiness. Short-term joy from shallow activities is something that I despise. And at this moment anything but philosophy, aboslute spirit, art is shallow for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

19 hours ago, haller said:

 

 

Hi, 

I came across Ayn Rand in high school. It helped me organise my life back then and gave a lot of motivation to achieve my goal which was studying abroad. Now I’m at university but it didn’t really make me happy. Probably because my expectations were too big. I mean it’s alright but I started doubting in my future career related goals and got trapped in some sort of nihilistic mood. I can’t find anything that makes my truly happy or values that are worth living. Don’t get me wrong, there are many things that give me joy, probably too many but this is short term unsustained happiness which I consider very immature and irrational, nothing to do with true happiness. The only happiness that I could think of now is spending all time on art and Philosophy and sharing thoughts with like-minded people that I have big problems to find. How can man find his values? I admire people who know who they are. I feel like I can be anyone but I don’t know who I want to be therefore I’m no one. Whenever I think I overcame that nihilism of mine with some solution then there’s always another “why” that I can’t find answer. Does being an objectivist mean that you have everything figured out in your head?

 
 

This kind of makes me think about the time when Peter Keating was talking with Howard Roark and Roark said to him ...

“If you want my advice, Peter, you’ve made a mistake already. By asking me. By asking anyone. Never ask people. Not about your work. Don’t you know what you want? How can you stand it, not to know?”

Ayn Rand said that happiness comes from the "...achievement of ones values...". You said that studying abroad was a goal and that it did not make you happy, buy "studying" is a process and not an acheivment. 

The process is not where hapiness comes. It comes at the end of the process. It comes at the acheivment of your goals. i have seen many people begin a lot fo things and then top inthe process for various reasons and it has lead in frustration. It takes effort to focus on what you really want to accomplish and then upon figuring that out stay with it until the end. It is at the end that you will find happiness. Hapiness is derived from the acheivment of your own goal by your own effort. 

No one can tell you what to value. You have to do the mental work to figure out what you would make you happy to acheive.

Edited by Veritas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, haller said:

Due to rationality, I gave up on studying art and philosophy because even though I really enjoy it, it does not mean I am to become artist or philosopher.

If you don't know what you should become, why is it rational to give up on art and philosophy? Maybe you should become an artist or philosopher.

6 hours ago, haller said:

I could imagine myself struggling to make a good living. So since it was so risky I thought It would be rational to pursue profitable career and by achieving significant financial independence relatively early I can then focus fully on art and philosophy or finding other purpose.

So the problem isn't that you don't know what you should be doing. It's that you don't want to struggle as an artist/philosopher.

6 hours ago, haller said:

Apart from that I like a mind game that I am playing quite a lot.

Instead of playing games, why not devote that time to designing a game that you might sell? I want to be a writer. Every day I wake up and write something on a topic of interest. Maybe it's time for you to develop such a habit with your art or reading. I bet you have a stack of philosophical books that need to be studied. Or some picture you want to draw. Try putting the game down once in awhile and working on a creative project of your own. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure, we're all going to die, but we all have lives to live until that happens, and it's our lives that are important and meaningful.

It doesn't matter how little effect we can have on the surface of the planet Jupiter or on even more distant places, or how many of such places there are, or how big they are.  What matters is what effect we can have on our own lives.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/25/2019 at 2:39 AM, Veritas said:

 

This kind of makes me think about the time when Peter Keating was talking with Howard Roark and Roark said to him ...

“If you want my advice, Peter, you’ve made a mistake already. By asking me. By asking anyone. Never ask people. Not about your work. Don’t you know what you want? How can you stand it, not to know?”

Ayn Rand said that happiness comes from the "...achievement of ones values...". You said that studying abroad was a goal and that it did not make you happy, buy "studying" is a process and not an acheivment. 

The process is not where hapiness comes. It comes at the end of the process. It comes at the acheivment of your goals. i have seen many people begin a lot fo things and then top inthe process for various reasons and it has lead in frustration. It takes effort to focus on what you really want to accomplish and then upon figuring that out stay with it until the end. It is at the end that you will find happiness. Hapiness is derived from the acheivment of your own goal by your own effort. 

No one can tell you what to value. You have to do the mental work to figure out what you would make you happy to acheive.

I actually can't stand not knowing it. That's why I took such a desperate measure and asked. 

I agree that happiness comes from achievement not from the process but I am anticipating the achievement at the end of my current process and it won't make me happy. During the process I collect information that create reluctance and doubts about it. The achievements that I truly believe that would lead to happiness are very likely to be idealistic and impossible to accomplish. I think this unattainable goals are, or actually would be, the only ones worth pursuing: finding fundamentals of reality, pure consciousness or fullness of meaning. However, since it is not possible to figure out those things, we should accept our limitations and leave it. For long I could not accept the fact that we are only animals after all. But even that does not make sense completely because if our primary purpose was procreation and love was just attribute of our species to accomplish that. Why are we capable of independent thinking then? I don't even know how to study this purposelessness.

On 5/25/2019 at 8:02 AM, MisterSwig said:

1. If you don't know what you should become, why is it rational to give up on art and philosophy? Maybe you should become an artist or philosopher.

2. So the problem isn't that you don't know what you should be doing. It's that you don't want to struggle as an artist/philosopher.

3. Instead of playing games, why not devote that time to designing a game that you might sell? I want to be a writer. Every day I wake up and write something on a topic of interest. Maybe it's time for you to develop such a habit with your art or reading. I bet you have a stack of philosophical books that need to be studied. Or some picture you want to draw. Try putting the game down once in awhile and working on a creative project of your own. 

1. I don't see myself as any of those. I just really love to read philosophy and contemplate art but I don't have any artistic or philosophical aspirations. How could I be an artist or philosopher if I don't have any vision of my own. They create things and answers. I look for them. I believe in one objective truth and try to find it. That's why I believe it is more rational to give up on art & philosophy since even for aesthetically good artists it is hard to make a living nowadays. Now I just pursue money that will give me resources (financial independence) to fully focus on finding real happiness in the future, which now I doubt in. I guess I am looking for some ideal and I should accept earthboundness and shallowness of reality. 

2. I think there are many rationales to believe that my artistic or philosophical goals are unattainable, thus, pursuing them and then struggling would be in my eyes irrational, hence, wrong. Obviously I could become a philosopher that accepts this impossibility and creates shallow meaning for life, but I believe money is a mean that can lead to fulfilment of any shallow meaning.

3. Maybe it is some sort of obsession of mine but I could create only two types of games. One wouldn't be in concordance with my beliefs because its purpose would be to achieve commercial success and generate highest profit, so therefore, it couldn't be too sophisticated because it would be created for the mob. It is definitely very risky, I'd jeopardise my beliefs, and it still would be probably less profitable than what I will be earning if I keep pursuing my current career path. The second option would be creating a game that I would genuinely think that is good, this one won't jeopardise my integrity, neither generate serious money, however, it could lead to happiness. The only problem with it is, that it does not exist. Every game is pointless because it is either random or there is a minimax strategy that is the most optimal (generates highest probability of winning), but then it is not stimulating and it is boring. Chess was solved ages ago, online poker with efficient data available is almost solved. The game I mentioned that I play is contract bridge, even online version of it (using robots) is not even close to be solved but it is the matter of time thanks to machine learning and evolutionary programming. However, thanks to the fact that we cannot use any of highly statistical solutions of the games in real life because of the limitations when it comes to our computing power, it makes these games bearable to play. You can enjoy the fact that they stimulate you but it does not create any value and is just shallow kind of joy. Playing them cannot be one's purpose because then there would be no difference between someone who is playing League of Legends 24h or Chess whole life, apart from the history and perception of the game. Even if we stick to games, the most difficult one and the most rewarding one at the same time (therefore it should be the only right one to play) is markets. It is not random, market adjusts to your strategy, therefore there is no unique solution that would work all the time, there are many factors to consider, endless possibilities and it is the most rewarding one, even the big element of risk it contains makes it more interesting than others. But then it means that our purpose is either 1. being the best by outperforming others which is shallow because we want to be the best just for the sake of being the best so we care more about others than ourselves; or 2. money which is wrong because money cannot be a purpose itself; or 3. getting a joy just from just playing the game. I believe the last one is CPL for most professional sportpeople but for me it is some irrationality because there are no true rationales behind any game to really love playing it and choosing it.

I would love to give creating a proper shot but first I need to find or create my vision to have something to convey in artistic form. Getting inspired by someone and following some stream would be a token of second-handness and hence it'd be wrong.

On 5/25/2019 at 12:58 PM, softwareNerd said:

You say you are at university and that you have postponed you plans for philosophy and art. 
As things stand today, what career are you headed toward? Doctor, lawyer, scientist, programmer, manager?

Finance, a career in some alternative investment fund (a hedge fund probably) with investment banking or asset management as a first stepping stone.

On 5/25/2019 at 8:42 PM, Doug Morris said:

Sure, we're all going to die, but we all have lives to live until that happens, and it's our lives that are important and meaningful.

It doesn't matter how little effect we can have on the surface of the planet Jupiter or on even more distant places, or how many of such places there are, or how big they are.  What matters is what effect we can have on our own lives.   

Our effect on our lives is fairly big, obviously not complete to existing limitations. Nonetheless, it does not stop us from doing what we want. I agree with that, though, I struggle with the steps before it. Since, rationality is man's basic virtue and the only source of knowledge hence I try to find rational reasons for living. 

 

I am aware that this post is extremely long and most people won't read it. So if you could just answer the 3 following questions:

1. Do you really believe that life is rational?

2. Does rationality implies the existence of the most rational and optimal way of living? 

3. Are we capable of being fully rational? 

 

When it comes to second question, I believe the answers is yes. Life is a series of decisions, and we should try to find the most rational (therefore the best one) goal and thus make the most rational (therefore the best ones) decisions to achieve that goal. So hence there are goals and decisions (rational ones) that are better than others (irrational ones). So it creates existence of optimality. Moreover, since those goals and decisions are the object of rational objective thought they should apply to everyone. If something is rational to one person and is not rational to another means it is subjective, and therefore, is not rational. Regarding last question, I think it is not possible, there are too many limitations of our species, however, we should pursue our potential. What's rationale for doing so, then? There's always a thing that we cannot find cause of, isn't rationality hopeless then? It is not rational to pursue something hopeless. Is it rational to be irrational? I guess I overdid here, so yeah, until next time.

Edited by haller

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/24/2019 at 4:58 PM, haller said:

fundamentals of reality, pure consciousness or fullness of meaning

Why do you consider these things to be the only goals worth pursuing? I see them as the most shallow and meaningless aspect of your entire post. They are mere words without depth or substance. What is "pure consciousness"? What is a "fundamental of reality"?

Frankly, you're getting way ahead of yourself. You admit to confusion about being rational and finding values, yet you claim to know the only goals worth pursuing. How did such confusion lead to such certainty? It's a miracle.

Can you stop for a moment and check your premise?

On 5/24/2019 at 5:23 PM, haller said:

Whenever I try to be rational about this I cannot overcome the argument that we are all going to die but what is more importantly, we are so irrelevant and tiny in the context of whole universe.

Why is that rational or important? What's important is that you are alive, and you are relevant to yourself and your friends and family. Try being more rational in your chosen contextual perspective. The universe is more popular and has a bigger penis than you. So what? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/25/2019 at 3:39 AM, Veritas said:

 

This kind of makes me think about the time when Peter Keating was talking with Howard Roark and Roark said to him ...

“If you want my advice, Peter, you’ve made a mistake already. By asking me. By asking anyone. Never ask people. Not about your work. Don’t you know what you want? How can you stand it, not to know?”

Ayn Rand said that happiness comes from the "...achievement of ones values...". You said that studying abroad was a goal and that it did not make you happy, buy "studying" is a process and not an acheivment. 

The process is not where hapiness comes. It comes at the end of the process. It comes at the acheivment of your goals. i have seen many people begin a lot fo things and then top inthe process for various reasons and it has lead in frustration. It takes effort to focus on what you really want to accomplish and then upon figuring that out stay with it until the end. It is at the end that you will find happiness. Hapiness is derived from the acheivment of your own goal by your own effort. 

No one can tell you what to value. You have to do the mental work to figure out what you would make you happy to acheive.

I am largely agreed, except for "the process is not where happiness comes. It comes at the end of the process". Only for starters, aren't there innumerable values one finds/makes/"achieves" along the way? You are developing your conceptual knowledge base, your skills, your virtues (e.g. self-esteem) and discovering the values in certain others, and more. I think it's important to not adopt the mindset that - I will be happy when I have it all completed. One can learn to take pleasure and happiness from the - perhaps - lesser value-achievements gained in the shorter-term, while not losing sight of the major one/s.

Edited by whYNOT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, haller said:

I agree that happiness comes from achievement not from the process

Not really. Personally, I don't want a life that is an ongoing struggle that produces some happy outcome every now and then. That's drudgery.

Consider successful financial analysts/investors. Would you say they dislike the day-to-day mechanics of the job, but continue to do it so that they can experience the happiness of being right? I cannot imagine any of them having that attitude and doing very well. Quite the opposite. They enjoy the intellectual challenge... the looking for opportunities... the analysis that yields some new insight... the integration of different data-points. That's what keeps them going. Yes, of course they would not do it if they thought there was no payoff coming. But they play because the game is fun to play... and yes, they want to win too.

Enjoying art and philosophy is one thing, but making it a career is something quite different. You do not become an artists by aiming at that painting or sculpture that you want to produce. You need to love the doing: the process. If it does not feel like a fun game while you're doing it, what's the point doing it at all?

Of course, every task has a lot of boring parts. It is the general love for the process that keeps people persevering. It is what drives a dilettante artist  to spend years and money learning techniques even though it means not producing satisfying works of art. it is what drives an analyst to read a boring document, hunting for some clues about a business. 

As for a central purpose. Don't go looking for it: you aren't going to find it. None of us is born with one either. Instead of a big, ambitious central purpose, aim for a simpler goal: what type of things do you think you could enjoy doing? How did you end up in your current course of study? Did the field of investing interest you? If not, is there anything else? If not, you just have to try things... until you find something that seems interesting. Then, pursue that.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, MisterSwig said:

Why do you consider these things to be the only goals worth pursuing? I see them as the most shallow and meaningless aspect of your entire post. They are mere words without depth or substance. What is "pure consciousness"? What is a "fundamental of reality"?

Frankly, you're getting way ahead of yourself. You admit to confusion about being rational and finding values, yet you claim to know the only goals worth pursuing. How did such confusion lead to such certainty? It's a miracle.

Can you stop for a moment and check your premise?

The premise is to be rational. 

"The virtue of Rationality means the recognition and acceptance of reason as one’s only source of knowledge, one’s only judge of values and one’s only guide to action. It means one’s total commitment to a state of full, conscious awareness, to the maintenance of a full mental focus in all issues, in all choices, in all of one’s waking hours. It means a commitment to the fullest perception of reality within one’s power and to the constant, active expansion of one’s perception, i.e., of one’s knowledge. It means a commitment to the reality of one’s own existence"

No, they are not mere words, words just will never be sufficient to describe those things.

8 hours ago, softwareNerd said:

Consider successful financial analysts/investors. Would you say they dislike the day-to-day mechanics of the job, but continue to do it so that they can experience the happiness of being right? I cannot imagine any of them having that attitude and doing very well. Quite the opposite. They enjoy the intellectual challenge... the looking for opportunities... the analysis that yields some new insight... the integration of different data-points. That's what keeps them going. Yes, of course they would not do it if they thought there was no payoff coming. But they play because the game is fun to play... and yes, they want to win too.

Fun to play so it'd some sort of rational hedonism.

 

8 hours ago, softwareNerd said:

As for a central purpose. Don't go looking for it: you aren't going to find it. None of us is born with one either. Instead of a big, ambitious central purpose, aim for a simpler goal: what type of things do you think you could enjoy doing? How did you end up in your current course of study? Did the field of investing interest you? If not, is there anything else? If not, you just have to try things... until you find something that seems interesting. Then, pursue that.

So if finding a central purpose is impossible, shouldn't one embrace absurdism? Let's leave that, let's stick to rationalism and apply it to our earthbound life. Should man pursue the goal that would make him the most happy or the goal that would be the most rational one. One can argue that the most rational thing is the thing that makes you happy the most, but then this thing is subject to our knowledge and other factors, therefore, it's not objective. 

Okay, let's be specific. Let's analyse my decision of studying abroad. I could have stayed and be possibly happier than I am now due to my friends, family, etc. that I abandoned to get better prospects. 

According to some of your arguments, I should have stayed because it is rational to be happy.

I believe that this happiness is the short-term one, not the one that we should pursue. So I chose the more reasonable decision, to my mind, that will result in better financial existence, more influential connections etc. We should pursue the most rational things that eventually result in real happiness from self-development thanks to which we can recognise it. I give up on my current happiness because I am not sure whether it is the sustained one, I prefer developing myself to make more accurate decision in the future. However, this leads to pursuit of greater good which again would be the central purpose for me.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, haller said:

Fun to play so it'd some sort of rational hedonism.

No, not if fun and value are intertwined. Too many people look at Roark and misinterpret him as a stoic, driven to deliver value to the world at great personal sacrifice. Not at all surprising... this is what it looks like to people who do not understand the fun of working in a field that gets your heart pumping.

 

3 hours ago, haller said:

So if finding a central purpose is impossible, shouldn't one embrace absurdism? Let's leave that, let's stick to rationalism and apply it to our earthbound life. Should man pursue the goal that would make him the most happy or the goal that would be the most rational one. One can argue that the most rational thing is the thing that makes you happy the most, but then this thing is subject to our knowledge and other factors, therefore, it's not objective. 

I did not say that finding a central purpose is impossible. I said that you aren't going to find it if you go looking for it. It works the other way around: you try things that seem like fun (and give you objective value... not hedonistic things you regret). Of the things you try, some seem more fun that others. If you pursue those, and start to become more adept, you'll find that you get deeper into it, become more of an expert, and it is even more fun that before. That way, you might well discover a central purpose. But, even if you do not... it isn't something to sweat. All that matters is the purposeful pursuit of value: because that's what will bring you a deep sens of happiness.

Not sure what absurdism is (I'm not a philosophy buff, and don't plan to look it up either). 

You correctly answer that we should seek out rational goals that make us happy. Yes, it is subject to our knowledge. You say that makes it non-objective. Objectivism actually uses the term "objective" differently. In Rand's terminology, she's say (instead), that values are not intrinsic. However, they aren't subjective either. There's a difference between choosing with a toss of a coin and choosing with all the adult knowledge we can bring to bear on a subject, coupled with asking other people for advice, reading books and so on. This latter approach is what Objectivism considers "objective". 

The whole reason we're even having this conversation is that you assume that you can think about things, get other opinions, and make decisions. There's really no such thing as intrinsic knowledge anyway. 

Bottom line: use the best of your knowledge, and seek out advice from people you consider more knowledgeable. Couple this with how you feel -- emotions are not tools of cognition, but are extremely important in giving us automated feedback about our likes and dislikes. Put all this together as best you can to figure out what value-pursuit seems to be most interesting to you. Then, go for it. You'll likely make a lot of mistakes, and take a lot of wrong paths. So, you watch, think, emote, and course-correct.  
 

3 hours ago, haller said:

Okay, let's be specific. Let's analyse my decision of studying abroad. I could have stayed and be possibly happier than I am now due to my friends, family, etc. that I abandoned to get better prospects. 

According to some of your arguments, I should have stayed because it is rational to be happy.

I believe that this happiness is the short-term one, not the one that we should pursue. So I chose the more reasonable decision, to my mind, that will result in better financial existence, more influential connections etc. We should pursue the most rational things that eventually result in real happiness from self-development thanks to which we can recognise it. I give up on my current happiness because I am not sure whether it is the sustained one, I prefer developing myself to make more accurate decision in the future. However, this leads to pursuit of greater good which again would be the central purpose for me.

I don't know the details here. But, yes there are times we want some goal that is not immediate, and we have to go work through negative experiences to get there. Being animals, we always have the here and now -- current happiness and comfort -- singing a siren song to us. As humans, we are able to imagine the better long-term future, and are able to be disciplined about keeping our focus there. It is not easy --- as many people who try to lose weight will testify. Still, it is possible -- even with some slips, falls and a few backward steps. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, haller said:

The premise is to be rational. 

It seems that your premise is also your purpose. Except that a few concepts have been corrupted in the process. "A state of full, conscious awareness" has become "pure consciousness." And "the fullest perception of reality" has become "the fundamentals of reality."

This is what tends to happen with people who mistake virtue for value, action for object. You make life about the pursuit, and so your goal must always be vague and unattainable, because if you actually achieved it, your life would be over. You would have nothing left to achieve, except a "shallow and meaningless existence."  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/28/2019 at 6:07 AM, softwareNerd said:

I did not say that finding a central purpose is impossible. I said that you aren't going to find it if you go looking for it. It works the other way around: you try things that seem like fun (and give you objective value... not hedonistic things you regret). Of the things you try, some seem more fun that others. If you pursue those, and start to become more adept, you'll find that you get deeper into it, become more of an expert, and it is even more fun that before. That way, you might well discover a central purpose. But, even if you do not... it isn't something to sweat. All that matters is the purposeful pursuit of value: because that's what will bring you a deep sens of happiness.

Even though the OP has gone silent, i wanted to add to my previous post.
Not only can one not find a CPL by chasing it in the abstract, but doing so can be positively destructive.

 

Instead of the classic case where your parents force you to become a doctor, lawyer, engineer from too young an age... it can easily become you, doing the similar thing to yourself. This is true even it you push yourself into a non-traditional, "live poor forever" artistic profession, in cases where you might really take years to realize (or never realize) that you only ought to have dabbled, as a hobby.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...