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Superman or Batman?

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What Moose said. And also Batman depends more on reason than force. Superman solves too many problems by punching them.

Caveat: I'm talking only about the various animated series and perhaps the movies.

On that vein, my favorite ever Batman scene is in "The Batman-Superman Movie." Batman follows Joker into Metropolis. While interrogating suspects, albeit in his usual high-handed manner, Superman tries to stop him (with some reason). Batman just grabs Superman's arm and flings him over his head. The look of incredulity on Superman's face is priceless. Naturally Superman reacts, but by then Batman has taken out a sliver of Kryptonite which stops Superman cold. This shows Batman dares take on a stronger opponent because he is prepared to do so.

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Topic posted in the "Questions about Objectivism" section.

Hm...

BATMAN IS THE ONLY RATIONAL CHOICE FOR ALL OBJECTIVISTS AND OBJECTIVISM SAYS SO AND IF YOU CONTRADICT THIS THEN YOU ARE A HERETIC AND WILL BE EXCOMMUNICATED AND BATMAN COULD TOTALLY TAKE SUPERMAN BECAUSE HE ALWAYS CARRIES KRYPTONITE.

Oh wait. No it doesn't. My bad.

/seriously, though, the question is not appropriate as Objectivism does not have a position on Batman vs Superman.

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^Maybe sometimes people post in the wrong section by accident. Damn. So, which do you prefer?

I prefer Batman for reasons Moose already stated. He is a self-made badass. He has all sorts of awesome gadgets, he has the Batcave, the Batmobile, Robin (err...), and not to mention his outfit is waaaay better than Superman's gayass tights and red cape. Is this even really a question? :P

Graaaant, what is your fave?

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Batman.

Bruce Wayne is pretty much the epitome of human evolution -- genius level IQ, Olympic athlete body, iron will, model looks, in-depth knowledge on everything from computer science, chemistry, biology, mechanical engineering, robotics, psychology, forensics, military strategy and tactics, and a world-class martial artist to boot. On top of that he repeatedly kicked superman's ass.

Oh, and he has a better costume, drives a better car (plane, bike, submarine), and even has a better nickname (Dark Knight = badass, Man of Steel = porn star).

Clark Kent on the other hand is a wuss and a simpleton without his powers. Case closed.

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By the way the only thing i never really liked about Batman is how he designed Robin's costume. I liked the idea that this lone brooding vigilante opened up and took up an orphan, mentoring him into a partner. But what is the deal with the yellow/green/red tights? It looks like something he drew up after a night of heavy drinking with Alfred. For all of Bruce Wayne's formidable skills, he is apparently no fashion designer.

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I like Batman, for the same reasons as everyone has pointed out. Moebius, your description is great.

But I also identify with his loner qualities. Batman likes to be alone, and do things alone, in his own way.

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By the way the only thing i never really liked about Batman is how he designed Robin's costume. I liked the idea that this lone brooding vigilante opened up and took up an orphan, mentoring him into a partner. But what is the deal with the yellow/green/red tights? It looks like something he drew up after a night of heavy drinking with Alfred. For all of Bruce Wayne's formidable skills, he is apparently no fashion designer.

17914-robin_400.jpg

Better?

The whole-bright-flashy-colors costume was actually a strategic move on Batmans part. He would send this bright colored kid out to fight first because it's an easier target for criminals, then he would sneak around and get them when they were distracted. Also, you can see by the new outfit that robin is slowly being trained to take Batman's place. That is one of the reasons he has the sidekick, other then having someone more personable around, and if Batman gets into trouble Robin has his back or can got get Superman, or Green Lantern to handle it.

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Superman supposedly stands for "Truth, Justice, and the American Way", but every action he does contradicts that. However, Batman stands for those things much more explicitly, but he is a vigilante who takes self-defense into his own hands (anyone who's read "Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal" should know the problems associated with this). Between the two of them, Batman is definitely the better, but I would also submit a greater superhero embodiment of the Objectivist Ideal; Captain America.

Even better than Captain America (because he was the product of someone else's genious). Iron Man would be the best example I could think of. He is extremely intelligent, he is tough, he works for his own sake (Stark Enterprises), and he protects the rights of men.

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Topic posted in the "Questions about Objectivism" section.

Hm...

BATMAN IS THE ONLY RATIONAL CHOICE FOR ALL OBJECTIVISTS AND OBJECTIVISM SAYS SO AND IF YOU CONTRADICT THIS THEN YOU ARE A HERETIC AND WILL BE EXCOMMUNICATED AND BATMAN COULD TOTALLY TAKE SUPERMAN BECAUSE HE ALWAYS CARRIES KRYPTONITE.

Oh wait. No it doesn't. My bad.

/seriously, though, the question is not appropriate as Objectivism does not have a position on Batman vs Superman.

My apologies. I'm still relatively new to this forum and I wasn't sure where to post it.

I'd appreciate it if a Mod wouldn't mind moving it to a more appropriate section.

Edited by Grant
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Even better than Captain America (because he was the product of someone else's genious). Iron Man would be the best example I could think of. He is extremely intelligent, he is tough, he works for his own sake (Stark Enterprises), and he protects the rights of men.

Yeah. Shame Marvel recently turned him into an oppressive statist in Civil War.

I agree with what has been said so far, though it also has to be said that Superman has a more benevolent sense of life than Batman.

As for the ultimate Objectivist superhero, check out The Question by Steve Ditko.

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Superman supposedly stands for "Truth, Justice, and the American Way", but every action he does contradicts that.

I don't agree with this. He fights criminals and thugs, not good guys and he stays within the law, the law in this case being Western (American) law. He's a righteous character. He has altruistic elements, as is almost unavoidable in the modern age, but he’s far from the perfect embodiment of that. I see him as an American character, with American values. He places right above might, despite his mind blowing might. He's not a mindless brute. Apparently, from what I read, in his first incantations he was brutal with thugs and criminals. He had a real edge to his character that changed over time.

As to the red cape, Superman is the one character who can wear the red cape. Anyone else would be laughed at. Superman is worthy of the red cape.

As to Superman's intelligence, he is highly intelligent, with a vast body of knowledge.

I love the Superman character. However, having said that, I prefer Batman. Batman was more down to earth. He was a self-made man, not a god. He was a wealthy industrialist, who built himself up both physically and intellectually into a crime fighter. It's hard for an Objectivist to not like that. As a human being, I can learn much more from that than I can from a man with superpowers.

But I also identify with his loner qualities. Batman likes to be alone, and do things alone, in his own way.

This is true, although Superman did have his fortress of solitude where he would spend quite a bit of his time. Btw, Doc Savage has strong loner qualities as well.

Adam West was fantastic as Batman on the TV series. You also had to love Frank Gorshin (Riddler), Burgess Meredith (Penguin), Cesar Romero (Joker) and Julie Newmar (Catwoman...HOT!).

Adam West did a pretty good job, but the series itself was more of a spoof than a serious depiction of the character.

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The whole-bright-flashy-colors costume was actually a strategic move on Batmans part. He would send this bright colored kid out to fight first because it's an easier target for criminals, then he would sneak around and get them when they were distracted.

Thats probably why the first Robin died.

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Thats probably why the first Robin died.

Yeah I think so too, and maybe why the costume changed. What do you think of the new custom? I posted it too show you because you said you didn't like the old one.

Also, about Batman being a vigilante, I think he is actually a de facto employee of the Gotham police. They give him access to there records, they rely on him, let him apprehend criminals. It makes sense, normal cops wouldn't be able to handle someone like The Joker, Poision Ivy, Clayface, Catwoman, and Scarecrow (who actually brooke out of jail by making all these guards think they were leading in somewhere else, and then making them kill themselves). It's always said that cops are heroes right? Well sometimes they need a super hero to help them.

As to the red cape, Superman is the one character who can wear the red cape. Anyone else would be laughed at. Superman is worthy of the red cape.

I don't know, Spawn pulls off the red cape quite nicely.

86380-spawn_400.jpg

119995-spawn_400.jpg

Spawn and The Bat, to keep things in topic and in perspective.

118357-spawn_400.jpg

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I don't know, Spawn pulls off the red cape quite nicely.

86380-spawn_400.jpg

It looks like a feak'n mess to me. Nice work of art, though.

What I meant by my comment is that nobody can laugh at Superman’s cape, because the guy can truly live up to the billing. The cape also has some phenomenal properties.

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Green Lantern.

Particularly the former Hal Jordan Character. Sure he hangs out with ultra rich commie Green Arrow but his powers came entirely from his strength of will, bravery, and pride in himself. What's more if you ever read the series in which he goes 'rogue', emerald twilight, there are many parallels to the Fountainhead. Namely,

after his home city has been destroyed in the death of superman saga

rather than accept the traditional stance of the guardians to act like an intergalactic even-more-impotent UN, he chooses to put his own values ahead of everything. Plus, power wise he's the ultimate in rational superheroes, the extent of his powers is only limited by his imagination.

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