Objectivism and Tolerance to Military Service

[T. Bell]

Hello all,

I have been in the Navy for 3 1/2 years now. When I originally enlisted, I did it under the precept that I was acting in my rational self interest and defending my country. But just after two years of being in I really began to do a self assessment of my life, choices, and career. It was at this point that I have become plagued with inner turmoil because I don't believe that I work for an organization that is acting in my, or any of my fellow citizens best interest. I am not saying that I am opposed to war. I believe very firmly that we have a right to self-defense and that that should be the only reason to going to war. But anybody that watches the news can see that our government's view on this war, whether legitimate or not, is about preserving the lives of citizens in a foreign nation and valuing their lives above ours. I believe that the governments sole purpose is to act in our best interest and protect our rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. But the manner in which we have fought this war has not done so. Our enemy was not Iraq, although most of us would agree that Saddam Hussein was a bloodthirsty tyrant that oppressed his people on numerous occasions. However, it was not Iraq that attacked us. It was Islamic Totalitarian Ideology. That is just my personal belief but that is the purpose of this post. My purpose is to pose a question that hopefully some of you can help shed some light on for me.

If I value my life and my life's purpose should be pursue my own happiness, not living my life for others while not asking others to theirs for mine, and a governments responsibility is to act in the best interests of its citizens and protect their rights, do I tolerate serving in an organization that I believe to acting immorally/unethically, or do I refuse to participate and get out? Especially if am not happy and no longer believe in what I'm doing? If no longer a mutual benefit, a trade of value for value am I compelled to honor the contract?

As you can imagine, it is difficult for me to organize all my thoughts in an understandable format and even more so in posing all the questions I have on this matter. Any input would appreciated.

[Rearden_Steel]

As a former First Class Petty Officer I can tell you that the first and foremost mission of the US Navy is to protect US interest at sea and maintain shipping lanes. Not to mention fighting the current pirate situation in the area. All noble causes. So unless you’re a sand sailor or a SEAL I’d imagine that your involvement in Iraq is little to none.

Edited February 12, 2009 by Rearden_Steel

[Rearden_Steel]

Growing up in rural Nevada we would often go coyote hunting. The coyotes were over populated and were a menace to cattle. Now coyotes are stealthy and skittish creatures so you don’t go bumping around in the night looking for them, you let them come to you. Prop up some bait and shoot them one by one as they come by.

I believe the same is true for terrorist. Many of the insurgents that we kill are not Iraqi, they come from every were from Europe to Africa to Indonesia. We simply just sit and wait and pick them off one by one. Its far better we kill them in a shit-hole like Iraq then here in the US, and since that time there has not been another attack here. For a large part I believe its because they are busy being killed over there.

Edited February 12, 2009 by Rearden_Steel

[Grames]

If I value my life and my life's purpose should be pursue my own happiness, not living my life for others while not asking others to theirs for mine, and a governments responsibility is to act in the best interests of its citizens and protect their rights, do I tolerate serving in an organization that I believe to acting immorally/unethically, or do I refuse to participate and get out? Especially if am not happy and no longer believe in what I'm doing? If no longer a mutual benefit, a trade of value for value am I compelled to honor the contract?

I am ex-navy and consider myself qualified to answer this.

First of all get straight in your head that you are obligated to honor the contract. If you are given an unlawful order you can disobey it, but that will never negate your contract. Even if there should be massive congressional clusterfuck over the budget that shuts the government down and you don't even get paid for months, you are obligated to honor the contract. Furthermore, realize that your contract can be extended indefinitely without your consent. You can be lawfully ordered to put your life and health at great risk. This is not a normal contract.

Second, don't rationalize. It is perfectly reasonable to be unhappy with your choice of a military career for any number of reasons. There is no need to trump up some bullshit "the entire Navy is unethical" line in your mind to make yourself feel better about the fact that you don't fit in and don't want to.

Third, "the entire Navy is unethical" is bullshit because organizations are not unethical, individuals are. You are unjustly damning the whole organization for the acts of a few. Collective guilt is not right.

Fourth, I disagree that your having a blindingly brilliant strategic vision of how to fight the grand war against Islamic Totalitarian Ideology enables you to be taken seriously when you pronounce other people with different strategies immoral.

Fifth, when you finally someday become a civilian again you will still find yourself thrown into situations requiring interaction with stupid or immoral people. You will find that changing careers or moving to a new city every time this happens is not an effective coping strategy.

Looking forward to your response.

[Zip]

Well, I'm not in the Navy nor am I an American but having served 24 years and counting I think I can comment.

Your question about your contract is the most troubling for me. Of course you have to honour it, it is a legally binding contractual agreement between you and the state. If you didn't read it or think enough about your choice before signing on the dotted line, or even if you did and you just hate the trade and job you have chosen, well, I'm sorry, times are tough all over. Do the right thing finish your contract and do not reenlist.

Part of your contract explicitly states something along the lines of I will do anything that my commanders lawfully order me to do.... Sorry pal, but that whole, "They are immoral should I or shouldn't I participate?" question has been answered by your own signature.

Yes you have rights, and fundamental among them are your rights to Life, Liberty and Property, but you can, of your own free will limit your own enjoyment of those rights, and that is what signing on the dotted line does.

Having said all of the above I feel your pain. In my career I've worked for governments that not only completely ignored the defense of my nation but actually derided soldiers, sailors and airmen in order to gain political points with a largely ignorant population.

Hell, you want immoral I've worked for the UN for fucks sake, and you can't even spell unethical with out the UN.

However, through all of it, I was able to remain ethical. I was able to be honourable and I was able to ensure that I was the best I could be so that when the time came I would be ready willing and able to protect my country.

And you want to know a wonderful byproduct of my selfishness? My commanders at all levels, started noticing me, and I began to get promoted, and I began to be able to influence those people junior to me to be honourable self-serving professionals for their own sake.

I began to soldier because I loved the ideal, I continued to soldier because I loved my work.

I think it's time you threw away the childish notion that your selfless devotion to your country will ever be enough to sustain you in the military. You need to decide if you love to do it for you.

[wilicyote]

There is no need to trump up some bullshit "the entire Navy is unethical" line in your mind to make yourself feel better about the fact that you don't fit in and don't want to.

Third, "the entire Navy is unethical" is bullshit because organizations are not unethical, individuals are. You are unjustly damning the whole organization for the acts of a few. Collective guilt is not right.

Fourth, I disagree that your having a blindingly brilliant strategic vision of how to fight the grand war against Islamic Totalitarian Ideology enables you to be taken seriously when you pronounce other people with different strategies immoral.

Looking forward to your response.

I think you are taking some liberty with what he actually said, and what a reasonable person would infer was his meaning.

T. Bell,

You are required to honor your contract unless you can demonstrate in court that the Navy has not honored their side. Soldiers are occasionaly released from service for breach of contract by the military, but it is rare. I think it is unlikely that your situation would qualify.

It may be worth asking yourself whether it is the Navy that is acting unethically or the administration that gives them their orders. The Navy's responsibility is to follow the orders of its commanders, the supreme one being the commander-in-chief.

It sounds like your philosophical viewpoint evolved somewhat during your enlistment and now, finding yourself in a place you would rather not be, you are wondering what to do about it. I am pleased that you are asking what the MORAL thing to do is.

This is my suggestion. Finish your tour with honor. Meet the terms of your contract, but do not renew it. Do not re-inlist. Since your tour may have some time left on it (years even), make sure you gain all that their side of the contract offers. Develop your skills to the highest level possible, advance your education to the fullest extent, all on the Navy's dime, as per contract. You have offered up a supreme value to the service of your country, make sure you are claiming ALL the value they offer in exchange.

It may be clear to you now that, in your case, you made an error in judgement by enlisting; all actions have cosequences, yours is that you will be required, and morally obligated to honor your contract. You have the intellect to realize the error, and upon completion of your contract, you will be able to correct it. You will have learned a great deal in the process, so do not think that you time between now and then is wasted.

FWIW I am ex ARMY so I understand what you are asking. Read through all the responses here. Make your own best judgement. If you have more questions, don't hesitate to ask them, even if some of the responses are harsh.