Jake_Ellison Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 (edited) Showing exactly the same level of understanding of the ideals of a free society as the Muslims who originally called for Denmark to censor the Mohammad cartoons, the Pope recently complained to the Israeli government about jokes made on a private network, by a private individual in no way related to the government. (a comic) Unlike the Muslims, the Supreme Leader of Catholicism was successful on two counts: in convincing the Israeli Foreign Ministry to intervene, and in intimidating private individuals in a sovereign country to retract their statements. Here's the article I read on the subject: Vatican irked by `blasphemous' Israel TV show Here's how I came upon the story to begin with: Penn Says: Israel & the Pope I learned not to be surprised by what the Holy See considers appropriate behavior, but I am disappointed with the reaction of the Israeli government, particularly the foreign minister herself. This would have been an excellent opportunity for Israel to take a stand in the face of the constant hostility and antisemitism the Vatican is spewing. And she should have been as condescending as humanly possible while explaining to the Vatican's priests why freedom of speech is important in a society not based on ancient superstition, but on individual freedom. Edited March 17, 2009 by Jake_Ellison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Screw the Pope, he wears a frilly dress. Disgusting pedophiles, the whole lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utabintarbo Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Screw the Pope... Your playing right into his .....hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelconservative Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Israel should have told the Pope where to stick his pontif-icating... With the Catholic Church being supposedly neutral on the Israel/arab dispute and being so large world-wide and influential in many countries, I suspect that Israel does not want to risk upsetting the Vatican and drawing criticism that might swing the balance in favour of the arabs and result in further protests, condemnation and approbrium at the UN and the resulting pressure to make concessions. Pathetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 The UN is something else that needs to be scrapped. We need to run them out of New York and utilize the real estate for something productive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelconservative Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 The UN is something else that needs to be scrapped. We need to run them out of New York and utilize the real estate for something productive. don't get me started on the UN... I agree entirely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Patroller Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 One question .How do you spread tyranny in a theocracy? And a socialist one at that (the only differences between a kibbutz and a Collective Farm is the Tora or Talmud and the absense of "comrade")? It's just sort of 6 of one, half-dozen of the other so there is no principle involved in the case proper. He can ask, the government can say "no". If they say "yes" and have the powere to enforce it then the tyranny exists a prior and he does not add to it, just uses what is there. A far greater danger is what I heard about a few years back; lawyers trying to sue persons for telling lawyer jokes in the US (I don't know is the suit was successful). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake_Ellison Posted March 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 (edited) .How do you spread tyranny in a theocracy? And a socialist one at that... Israel's political system: theocracy. Israel's economic system: socialism. Those are two bold statements which require some of that argumentation. Personally, I think they're about as ridiculously and insanely baseless as I've ever seen on this forum (especially since most members of its current government, and its President, are not openly religious in any way, and I distinctly remember hearing tale of the Israeli private sector), but hey: If you're right, there's no reason why I couldn't be persuaded of it, so go ahead. Back it up. Edited March 18, 2009 by Jake_Ellison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelconservative Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 (edited) Israel is not a theocracy, this is a ridiculous suggestion. The fact that Orthodox Judaism has some official responsibilities regarding approving marriages does not make it a theocracy. Israel's laws are made by the secular government, there are no laws mandating kashrut (Jewish, religious, dietary laws) in restaurant or shops, though the Orthodox Rabbinate get to define what is kosher. Similarly, there is little public transport on the Sabbath, but you can still drive (which contravenes halacha). It is possible to say that the Orthodox are perhaps privileged by the State, but this is a long way from theocracy. Edited March 18, 2009 by rebelconservative Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Patroller Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Israel is not a theocracy, this is a ridiculous suggestion. The fact that Orthodox Judaism has some official responsibilities regarding approving marriages does not make it a theocracy. Israel's laws are made by the secular government, there are no laws mandating kashrut (Jewish, religious, dietary laws) in restaurant or shops, though the Orthodox Rabbinate get to define what is kosher. Similarly, there is little public transport on the Sabbath, but you can still drive (which contravenes halacha). It is possible to say that the Orthodox are perhaps privileged by the State, but this is a long way from theocracy. I hope you're right but over the last 35+ years I've heard otherwise, including from Ergo, an Objectivist newsletter of the '70's and early '80's; "Isreal Is Becoming Another Iran" It is called a Jewish state. But when you tell me that religion is "privileged by the State" that certainly establishes the principle of theocracy with the rest being a matter of degree -- and time. It's like the convervatives' prattle about "God in Governemtn" not being a violation of the Constitution. It's so nebulous it can mean anything which is the most dangerous kind of political theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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