Left and Right: Co-Dependent Foes

[Jon Letendre]

The politicians who should not be voted for are those boosting the decriminalization of murder. Such as Northam.

I am one thousand times more comfortable with people who would ban every abortion than I am with people who promote murder, than I am with people who vote for and make excuses for and in conversation evade the existence of, Northam and his disgusting actions.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Jon Letendre

[Boydstun]

Jon, sorry to hear that that is your position on law concerning abortion, but delighted to finally learn what is your position. Rethinking you. Where do you stand on the use of fetal tissue in medical research? Where do you stand on legality of birth control pills? Where do you stand on physician-assisted suicide? Where do you stand on legality of same-sex sexual relations?

Our governor in Virginia is Glenn Youngkin. He defeated Ralph Northan in the most recent election. Youngkin is a Republican, and he has indicated that when both chambers of the Assembly become Republican, he will be willing to sign legislation prohibiting all abortions. One chamber is now Republican; the other needs to pick up one more seat to turn over to Republican.

At present here in Virginia abortions are illegal in the third trimester of pregnancy, which is consistent with Roe and was also how our law was before Dobbs. During the Roe era, around the country, there were a few times that a physician performed an illegal abortion in the third trimester, abortions in circumstances that were prohibited by state law implemented in conformance with Roe. Those physicians were charged with murder or manslaughter (an actual case is discussed here; I concur with the authors concerning it), and that would be how it would go down were such a violation to occur here in Virginia.  

For those of us who regard prohibition of pre-viability abortions as involuntary servitude: 

Quote

 

The Republicans who should not be voted for are those boosting the outlawing of abortions prior to viability ~ 26 weeks (during which 99% of abortions take place). Among the Republican Presidential contenders, that would be: 

Donald Trump – vacillating; promised voters in 2016 he would appoint Justices who would overturn Roe v. Wade, opening the way for anti-abortionists to criminalize abortions prior to viability at the state level. (It was already criminalized after viability in every State, which was in conformance with Roe.)

Ron DeSantis – criminalized abortions in FL after 6 weeks of gestation.

Tim Scott – supports a national ban after 15 weeks of gestation, and even less if politically feasible.

Vivek Ramaswamy – supports criminalization after 6 weeks of gestation.

Nikki Haley – supports a national ban after 15 weeks of gestation.

Mike Pence – supports a national ban after 6 weeks of gestation, preferably even less; supports federal ban of mifepristone.

Chris Christie – vacillating.

Asa Hutchinson – supports a national ban after 15 weeks of gestation.

Doug Burgam – criminalized abortions throughout pregnancy in ND.

Will Hurd – supports a national ban after 15 weeks of gestation.

Francis Suarez – supports a national ban after 15 weeks of gestation.

 

The specific roles of Left- and of Right-congresspersons in THIS bears at least dishonorable mention, and really it needs to get to front and center of attention. Those massive expenditures of 7.6 trillion dollars are not covered by government revenues. Might that ultimately be why grocery prices have gone through the roof and the value of people's savings have shrunk? 

Since 2015, the Spending-to-GDP ratio has increased from 20% to 25%. 

Top questions to a candidate should not be "Where do you stand on the impeachment charge against so-and-so of inciting an insurrection?" or even "Where do you stand on the criminal indictment charge against so-and-so of corruptly obstructing a congressional proceeding?" In the criminal matters, naturally, violent acts at the Capitol on Jan. 6 have been prosecuted and will continue to be prosecuted as surely as the man who blew up the OKC Federal Building was prosecuted. We don't need candidates' opinions on those matters, though, of course it's thumbs down on any who praise such acts.

Top questions to a candidate should be:

A. Where do you stand on legality of pre-viability abortions?

B. What is your plan for balancing the federal budget? If their answer is merely to oppose expenditures favored by the opposing political party, they are useless on this problem. They have to have a global view, such as when Obama and Boehner agreed to a "I'll cut this, if you cut that" process of reducing expenditures to match revenue. (They did not get to implement this reduction agreement because some of the caucus under Boehner were more set on simply opposing anything appearing as cooperation with Obama than on balancing the budget or any other substantive issue.)

Edited September 16, 2023 by Boydstun

[Boydstun]

 

A thread concerning personal liberties and overlapping this one is here.

[DavidOdden]

16 hours ago, Jon Letendre said:

The politicians who should not be voted for are those boosting the decriminalization of murder. Such as Northam.

I am one thousand times more comfortable with people who would ban every abortion than I am with people who promote murder, than I am with people who vote for and make excuses for and in conversation evade the existence of, Northam and his disgusting actions.

This position is puzzling, but maybe there is a simple underlying difference in philosophical primaries. Are you a vegan or at least a vegetarian? As you know, meat is murder. It is universally legal in the US to murder a dog, cat, horse, cow or sheep that is suffering from a fatal injury or disease, and murdering rats and mice of commonplace and again perfectly legal. This state of legals affairs is identical to that in Virginia w.r.t. abortion. Can we assume that you are 1000 times more comfortable with the PETA extremists than with those who would murder – or enslave – animals?

 

[Jon Letendre]

Stephen, where did I state my position on law concerning abortion?

[Jon Letendre]

David, so you regard a newborn human being as comparable to an animal, and killing them should be legal?

[Boydstun]

4 hours ago, Jon Letendre said:

Stephen, where did I state my position on law concerning abortion?

From your "I am one thousand times more comfortable with people who would ban every abortion than . . ." I'd have surmised that was your position, perhaps only by "least bad option" in your assessment, but your option: ban all abortions.

Caginess is disrespectful, and your general fellow human beings, such as we, authentically communicating our positions and reasons to you, do not merit caginess in response.

State your position. Square up.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Boydstun

[DavidOdden]

8 hours ago, Jon Letendre said:

David, so you regard a newborn human being as comparable to an animal, and killing them should be legal?

Jon, so you regard cows as comparable to people, and eating them should be illegal?

[Jon Letendre]

That's funny, David. You are very confused. If you can review the thread and what I've written and write something relevant and coherent, I'll read and consider it.

[Jon Letendre]

I'm not being cagey, Stephen. I stated what I had on my mind in my first post on the thread. You evaded it, don't want to address it, prefer to refer to my sales trickery. That's ok.

[Doug Morris]

On 9/14/2023 at 7:58 PM, Jon Letendre said:

then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother,”

Ambiguous.  Is there any clarifying context?

 

[Jon Letendre]

"The infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired ... "

He was asked what happens under his late term abortion bill if the doctor screws it up and a live baby is born.

Moloch's dutiful son, that Northam.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Jon Letendre

[tadmjones]

I'm sure he was speaking hypothetically ... but what a boon that much fresh tissue would be on an open market.

Edited September 17, 2023 by tadmjones

[Jon Letendre]

3 minutes ago, tadmjones said:

I'm sure he was speaking hypothetically ... but what a boon that much fresh tissue would be on an open market.

Remember that gross lady from Planned Parenthood on hidden camera drinking cocktails cackling like a demon at a bar and bragging about how she wants "Ferrari prices" for the quantities and tissue preservations sought by the guy she is negotiating with?

[tadmjones]

Planned Parenthood , not abortion mill, good one!

Edited September 17, 2023 by tadmjones

[Jon Letendre]

If I recall correctly, it was complete intact heads he wanted, maybe it was a specific organ.

She explained that it was very time-consuming getting what he wanted completely intact and that her clinicians would have to develop wholly new techniques in order to satisfy his needs. Thus, "You'll have to really pay. I want a new Ferrari."

[Doug Morris]

 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-northam-abortion-execute/

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-virginia-gov-abortion/fact-check-virginia-governors-2019-comments-about-abortion-bill-are-missing-context-idUSKBN27D2HL

 

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/02/meme-misquotes-virginia-governor-on-abortion-bill/

 

[Jon Letendre]

If you are curious about why there are no big marches on DC in reaction to reversal of Roe, curious about what could be driving the support for abortion restrictions accross the country, curious as to how what's coming could really be coming, then reflect on the blatant evasion and dishonesty tactics such as above and consider how various forms of scumbaggery on one side is considered to be quite telling, whether you like it or not, by people on the fence and on the other side.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Jon Letendre

[Jon Letendre]

Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz:

"Today, of course, the greatest threats to civil liberties come, not from the right, but from the left."

[Doug Morris]

29 minutes ago, Jon Letendre said:

Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz:

"Today, of course, the greatest threats to civil liberties come, not from the right, but from the left."

We need to resist all threats to civil liberties, no matter where they come from.

Another quote from the same Alan Dershowitz interview:

And we're seeing extremism on both sides of the political spectrum. And the one thing about extremism is you don't need dissent. You don't need due process if you're an extremist because you know the truth with a capital T.  

 

[Doug Morris]

2 hours ago, Jon Letendre said:

the blatant evasion and dishonesty tactics such as above

Can you be more specific?

 

[tadmjones]

59 minutes ago, Doug Morris said:

We need to resist all threats to civil liberties, no matter where they come from.

 

 

Unless the authorities declare an emergency.

[Jon Letendre]

Right! Then all bets are off, close the schools, fuck the children's future, the propaganda's got me scared, I'm feeling vulnerable in my walker years!

[Boydstun]

9 hours ago, Jon Letendre said:

"The infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired ... "

He was asked what happens under his late term abortion bill if the doctor screws it up and a live baby is born.

Moloch's dutiful son, that Northam.

The part of the reply by the former Governor you quoted is obviously false if the medical profession will not participate in not resuscitating. Hypotheticals are lazy BS when real cases for such a circumstance can be researched. Double BS when posed to and answered by frat-brat politicians. By now there are months of actual practice in those six States that have in fact put abortion decisions into the hands of the woman and medical professionals throughout the pregnancy. What has actually happened subsequently in medical practice in those jurisdictions? (There was lots of dire speculation from Sen. McCain about what would happen were gays squarely accepted into the US Military services. The actual record after the change shows quite a different story.) 

I stated upstream what I think the law should be in post-viability cases and why. Has ever on your mind been "What is correct law concerning abortions?" I'm not looking to attack your conclusion, whichever it is. I'd just like to hear—would be delighted for such a square statement of—your sincere thought on the substantive issue itself.

[Boydstun]

The Pope continues his political campaigning for secular laws banning abortions, assisted suicide, and surrogacy.

Altar-Throne impetus you have with you always. It must, for liberty, be actively opposed with your vote.