KevinDW78 Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Hi everyone! I just joined this forum. I thought this was interesting (and sad) http://60minutes.yahoo.com/segment/140/happiness I think the most interesting thing to point out is for all of Denmark's happiness, what have they produced, invented, or accomplished toward the advancement of mankind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadkat Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Hi everyone! I just joined this forum. I thought this was interesting (and sad) http://60minutes.yahoo.com/segment/140/happiness I think the most interesting thing to point out is for all of Denmark's happiness, what have they produced, invented, or accomplished toward the advancement of mankind? Notice that the students themselves spoke of feeling more "content" than happy. Notice also that they described freedom acontextually. I think these are some of the key differences. Will these guys all have decent lives? Probably. But they do not have the opportunity to live an extraordinary life (or, conversely, crash and burn spectacularly) like perhaps someone like me would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidOdden Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 I think the most interesting thing to point out is for all of Denmark's happiness, what have they produced, invented, or accomplished toward the advancement of mankind? Cartoons, a that nobody including themselves can understand, a model of physics, the first scientific work on Indo-European, the company Møller-Mærsk, Legos, Vitus Bering, Hans Christian Andersen, and The Yeast. I don't think "the advancement of mankind" is a good basis for judging the merit of a nation of people people. What have the Dutch done for mankind? Or the Canadians? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrock3215 Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 I have heard about this so many times; I am tempted to say this has been overhyped by Western media. Moreover, I would read the following to see the other side before drawing any conclusions: A Case Study in Social Democracy http://www.mises.org/story/1274 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wrath Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Part of the reason people in other parts of the world may be "more content" or "happier" than Americans, despite being less wealthy, is that they aren't tempted by the same consumer culture we are. I'm about to dropp $1500 on an HD TV, then a few thousand on some nice furniture. Because I can...and I like consuming. But, because of our society where I am constantly tempted by newfangled gadgetry, huge televisions, and expensive luxuries, I will never be as satisfied as someone who has less money than me but is not tempted by all that stuff. If I gave all my personal possessions to someone who grew up in Ethiopia, he would probably be content to never ask for any more material comforts for the rest of his life. Not so for anyone in this country. Denmark is a less extreme example, but I would imagine it applies to an extent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaszloWalrus Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 How do the surveyors know that the people they interview are actually happy? A lot of Palestinian terrorists seem "happy" before they blow themselves up to go to heaven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles White Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 I remember hearing a similar list were Iceland was the happiest counrty in the world. http://www.reykjavik.com/News.aspx?aid=2006106300033 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benpercent Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 What are they measuring this happiness by? Smiles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupon Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 hi, I have also just joined in this forum, where I found every interesting and meaningful. The topic is a hot one that everyone concerns almost all through the life. Bascically, I don't think it makes any sense to say ceratin country is the most happiest one in the world. Everyone knows that there are a variety of definitions of "happiness", therefore, it is a word for an individural, not for a big company or a group as well as for an entire country. It is ridiculous to make such comments or surveys. In my view, ''happiness" relates to the contribution that I made to the world which is beneficial to some people living in the world. I would feel happy when I made the girl who I love lives a happy life. I would feel happy when a group of people live excitingly in a house that I design. I would feel happy when the citizens have a peaceful life and live in a big and highly effecient city where I make the planning. I always hold the view that a man throughout his life should make some contributions to the others and leave something meaningful, which I think is my "happiness". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Radiaki Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 (edited) Or the Canadians? I direct you here. The most important of them being, of course: Green Ink Currency ink invented by Thomas Sterry Hunt in 1862 Air-Conditioned Railway Coach Invented by Henry Ruttan in 1858 Just ask Dagny Taggert, am I right? Edited February 20, 2008 by Dr. Radiaki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JASKN Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 If I gave all my personal possessions to someone who grew up in Ethiopia, he would probably be content to never ask for any more material comforts for the rest of his life. Not so for anyone in this country. Denmark is a less extreme example, but I would imagine it applies to an extent.Is this person now living in America, or some similar country? Because then he would be influenced by the economy. If not, all of your stuff wouldn't work! (And who's making the new DVD's, or providing the internet or cable connection, or the solution to clean the leather couch?) I can't imagine someone seeing a better, or drastically better way of living and not think, "I want that instead." Your Ethiopian would have to be completely ignorant of the rest of the civilized world. Are there places with such people? Otherwise, even if his own country was much poorer, his motivation would be the same as an American's: I want a better life. I am skeptical of anyone who says poor or awful parts of the world have happier people than richer parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinDW78 Posted February 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 Cartoons, a language that nobody including themselves can understand, a model of physics, the first scientific work on Indo-European, the company Møller-Mærsk, Legos, Vitus Bering, Hans Christian Andersen, and The Yeast. I don't think "the advancement of mankind" is a good basis for judging the merit of a nation of people people. What have the Dutch done for mankind? Or the Canadians? Hmm... Well, I admit I hadn't considered Legos. HOWEVER, some of the things you list came about before Denmark became socialistic. I also agree with others here that even the concept of the "happiest nation" is just another nonsensical, collectivist concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidOdden Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 I also agree with others here that even the concept of the "happiest nation" is just another nonsensical, collectivist concept.What's more significant is the elevation of "happiness" to the status of an irrational primary. Happiness is a result of achieving your goals, but many people eliminate the cause of happiness and go straight for the hedonic effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wrath Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 Is this person now living in America, or some similar country? Because then he would be influenced by the economy. If not, all of your stuff wouldn't work! (And who's making the new DVD's, or providing the internet or cable connection, or the solution to clean the leather couch?) I can't imagine someone seeing a better, or drastically better way of living and not think, "I want that instead." Your Ethiopian would have to be completely ignorant of the rest of the civilized world. Are there places with such people? Otherwise, even if his own country was much poorer, his motivation would be the same as an American's: I want a better life. I am skeptical of anyone who says poor or awful parts of the world have happier people than richer parts. I'm not saying they're happier, but probably more content in many cases. Someone who is in the upper echelon of a poor society is probably more content than someone in the American middle class, despite the fact that the American is likely to be far wealthier. The reason is that the same temptations don't exist. In my example, I'm assuming that the guy stays in Ethiopia. Give him a middle class American-style home with middle class American-style furnishings in the middle of his shithole country, and he'll probably be content to just have things stay as they are. Think about the difference in our cultures. We are decades ahead, in terms of modern comforts, than much of the world. Imagine someone from the 22nd century coming to you and giving you all sorts of stuff that, until now, you've only dreamed of. You'd probably just take it all in and be content, because nothing you can buy in the primitive 21st century is going to be better than all the new stuff you've been given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JASKN Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 In my example, I'm assuming that the guy stays in Ethiopia. Give him a middle class American-style home with middle class American-style furnishings in the middle of his shithole country, and he'll probably be content to just have things stay as they are.I think the context here is so far removed from what actually happens or could happen, that the hypothetical isn't helpful. For example, say the man stays in Ethiopia with your stuff. What happens when it starts to wear down and needs replaced? Where is he going to find a replacement? Would he really enjoy the nicer things, when simply leaving his house provided a starkly worse reality? The poorer area probably has an awful, repressive government. Does that not bother the man? I think it would help if we were discussing specific reasons why people in less wealthy, or more socialist, or even very poor countries considered themselves very happy, to the extent that an outside observer considered them happier or more content than Americans. Or the observer's specific reasons. Otherwise, I don't see much value in this kind of speculating because it doesn't make much sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadmonson Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 (edited) I think people are "happy" or "content" just because they are indeed "happy" or "content" people. There are blind people that are "happy" or get "happy". I think this website is socialist propaganda. I wish I could debunk their idea. Edited February 21, 2008 by dadmonson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian0918 Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 (edited) I think the most interesting thing to point out is for all of Denmark's happiness, what have they produced, invented, or accomplished toward the advancement of mankind? Niels Bohr, Tycho Brahe, and a co-creator of the Hertzsprung-Russell diagram that revolutionized astronomy. Edited February 25, 2008 by brian0918 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgleandt Posted May 9, 2008 Report Share Posted May 9, 2008 Cartoons, a that nobody including themselves can understand, a model of physics, the first scientific work on Indo-European, the company Møller-Mærsk, Legos, Vitus Bering, Hans Christian Andersen, and The Yeast. I don't think "the advancement of mankind" is a good basis for judging the merit of a nation of people people. What have the Dutch done for mankind? Or the Canadians? Its not that the Dutch or the Canadians are stupid. That would be a racist comment. Its just that the smart ones, or at least the ones want to be achievers which requieres individualism move to a more free country such as United States where they are able to undertake their accomplishments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarIs4Profit Posted May 9, 2008 Report Share Posted May 9, 2008 Its not that the Dutch or the Canadians are stupid. That would be a racist comment. Its just that the smart ones, or at least the ones want to be achievers which requieres individualism move to a more free country such as United States where they are able to undertake their accomplishments. Socialism can work, its just that everyone needs to believe in the system, it cant be achieved through coercion. Sweden is a fine example: their people are healthy, they have a prominent scientific community, and it works because they all want to be there. They resisted the EU and its commie constitution longer than most other europeen countries, because they didnt want to be coerced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgleandt Posted May 10, 2008 Report Share Posted May 10, 2008 Socialism can work, its just that everyone needs to believe in the system, it cant be achieved through coercion. Sweden is a fine example: their people are healthy, they have a prominent scientific community, and it works because they all want to be there. They resisted the EU and its commie constitution longer than most other europeen countries, because they didnt want to be coerced. what do you call the government putting you in jail if you don't pay the amount of taxes they abritary decided that you should pay. Socialism can only be achieved through coercion, at the point of a gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RationalBiker Posted May 10, 2008 Report Share Posted May 10, 2008 Socialism can work, its just that everyone needs to believe in the system, it cant be achieved through coercion. Capitalism works without having to be "believed in". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyotr Posted May 10, 2008 Report Share Posted May 10, 2008 Socialism can work, its just that everyone needs to believe in the system, it cant be achieved through coercion. Sweden is a fine example: their people are healthy, they have a prominent scientific community, and it works because they all want to be there. They resisted the EU and its commie constitution longer than most other europeen countries, because they didnt want to be coerced. I don't think Sweden is an example of socialism working. Firstly because Sweden is not a socialist country. It's a welfare state that leans towards socialism. Second, it's my understanding that Sweden used to have a much freer economy than it does at the moment. The statist tendencies of the current government didn't create all the development and prosperity the country has. If the current level of statism had always been there, Sweden would not be as developed a nation as it is. No amount of belief makes socialism work. Nothing supernatural exists. Human minds are not metaphysically connected to each other and it's impossible for one person to think for another person. No amount of belief changes reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoroneus Posted May 10, 2008 Report Share Posted May 10, 2008 Its not that the Dutch or the Canadians are stupid. That would be a racist comment. Its just that the smart ones, or at least the ones want to be achievers which requieres individualism move to a more free country such as United States where they are able to undertake their accomplishments. Canadians are a race? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clawg Posted May 10, 2008 Report Share Posted May 10, 2008 Socialism can work, its just that everyone needs to believe in the system, it cant be achieved through coercion. Yes, just look at ants. Sweden is a fine example: their people are healthy, they have a prominent scientific community, and it works because they all want to be there. They resisted the EU and its commie constitution longer than most other europeen countries, because they didnt want to be coerced. - Sweden had forced sterilizations (among other forms of eugenic programs) until 1975. - Sweden was more or less a capitalist country until 1932 and was not bombed in the war (-> no war expenses compared to other countries) - Sweden was once (1970) the 4th-richest country of the world, now it's on 20th - There is a lot dispute about the real unemployment figures of Sweden, some put it as high as 17 percent because of government work programs Yes, socialism works. It works a country into the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_aver Posted May 10, 2008 Report Share Posted May 10, 2008 (edited) No amount of belief makes socialism work. Nothing supernatural exists. Human minds are not metaphysically connected to each other and it's impossible for one person to think for another person. No amount of belief changes reality. Actually, it often does, indirectly. Self-fulfilling prophecies come into mind as example. Sorry, I said stupid thing Edited May 10, 2008 by lex_aver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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