softwareNerd Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 (edited) ...assuming no minority inside the new state is being significantly dragged down in terms of freedom, individuals simply have the right to unite and organize as they see fit based on unassailable Natural Law (which governs all of us at all times).You obviously do not mean this, since you supported the "right" of Southern states to continue slavery. At some point, it simply isn't up to me to defend the standard, consensus, undisputed (normally!) political concepts and values of autonomy, self-rule, self-government, majority rule, democracy, political rights, free and fair elections, freedom of association, freedom to choose, etc. Nor is it up to me to defend rational nationalism i.e. the natural, ultra-familiar desire of blocks of individuals to form a nation-state based on commonality of culture, history, language, religion, ethnicity, belief, etc. These ideas and ideals are so well-established and universally accepted by virtually every even semi-civilized person that it's up to the nay-sayers to explain why they reject them. Much of the current debate on Georgia's recent aggression flies in the face of all reason.Assertion is not an argument. You speak about "at some point", as though you gave some reasons, but don't want to expand further. Fact is, you have offered no reasons at all. It is all assert, assert, assert: the hallmark of intellectual incompetence. From what I know about the specific situation -- which is close to nothing about the specifics -- I'm pretty open to the possibility that Georgians have been discriminating against the South Ossetians. However, you have never made that case. You're simply making the Bloods vs. Crips case. Basically, you're saying that the Bloods moved into the Crips "territory", and the Korean gangs are helping the Crips get back their "territory". Well, even if that is so, that does not mean that supporting the Koreans and the Crips and the Koreans is some type of moral stand. Read "Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal", if you want to further understand the Objectivist position on politics. Edited August 16, 2008 by softwareNerd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wotan Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8XI2Chc6uQ Very clever, Egoist. Trying to insert a bit of truth into the discussion, are we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01503 Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 (edited) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8XI2Chc6uQ That's interesting. I always do love how the media can twist and distort things. It's about time we get a little bit of truth in there. This also supports (and I was talking about this to another forum member) what we said about hacker warfare. The government obviously shut down the cell phone systems, as the girl said that the "cell phones were not working". I don't exactly think that's a coincidence. Edited August 16, 2008 by NickS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rks Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 Usual FoxNews tactics. When everything doesn't go as planned they cut off guests mic or put on commercial break Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clawg Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 (edited) Can someone explain me the point of the video? Because they were cut off at the end? Edited August 16, 2008 by Clawg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softwareNerd Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 Can someone explain me the point of the video? Because they were cut off at the end?The girl and her aunt were explaining that the Georgians were bombing some are that they were in. The girl and her aunt were thanking Russia for coming to their aid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rks Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 Can someone explain me the point of the video? Because they were cut off at the end? I guess the reason why it has so many views is that it makes FoxNews look so stupid. It makes it look like they didn't know that these guests had an agenda and that most ossetians support russians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clawg Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 (edited) The girl and her aunt were explaining that the Georgians were bombing some are that they were in. The girl and her aunt were thanking Russia for coming to their aid. Yes, well, but why is that significant? (except for FOX being "fair and balanced" and what rks said) The girl could have been told what to say. Edited August 16, 2008 by Clawg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softwareNerd Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 Yes, well, but why is that significant? (except for FOX being "fair and balanced" and what rks said) The girl could have been told what to say.Without any other evidence, I think it's reasonable to assume that the girl was telling the truth and is anti-Georgia. She might have been coached about the particulars of what to say (and not say), but the basic facts of the cafe being bombed, and the basicv fact of her pro-Russian/anti-Georgian sympathies were likely genuine. As for the significance: I cannot think of any. We know there's an ethnic war going on. So, the two sides will bomb each other. It is not surprising that this girl was sitting in a cafe when the bombs started falling. It would be wrong to assume that the Russians did not bomb people. It would be wrong to assume that the Georgians bombed that cafe because the coffee was not good, or because they wanted to kill that girl. The reason is simpler: there's a war going on! The girl's video can be summed up as saying: "there's a war going on, and we're on the Russian side". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve D'Ippolito Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 I think her aunt said she was Ossetian. I don't know *why* specifically the Ossetians in general do not like (ethnic) Georgians and don't like them so much that they actually prefer the Russians. But it must be noted that the Caucasus is such a mish-mosh of ethnicitiies it makes the Balkans look like a small happy family. (Preferring the Russians over X says a lot about X.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clawg Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 Ok, thanks, then I haven't missed anything in the video. The attention the video got just looked awkward to me... she has her whole family living there, probably for generations, so it's very unlikely that they speak out against the leadership there. And the 'incubator-babies-story' came to my mind... Too bad the public discussion is about atrocities, historic claims, ethnicity, international law etc. instead of principles and rights. So I think we will see more of these stories coming up in the next few weeks. Ah, yes, propaganda war, I missed you so much. It would be wrong to assume that the Georgians bombed that cafe because the coffee was not good People were killed for less! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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