Currence Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 Quick reply about the Ayn Rand shirt idea. I had that idea a year or so ago when one of my friends was into Communism (he has since gone to Libertarianism, and to Objectivism... I hope he stays!). I wanted it to have the same revolutionary flare as the Che shirt, and I was going to sell them on CafePress, but the ARI didn't want me to use their image of her face. Maybe someone else will have more luck than I do; I'd pay money for one, that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wrath Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 Not arguing just wondering: how did she make money peddling altruism? If she did, then I would agree that it's pretty despicable. Having said that, most people believe that altruism is the epitome of morality. I find it difficult to despise everyone who advocates altruism, because most of them are just saying what they've been taught all their lives. If what you say about Oprah is true, then I would agree that she is worse than most, since she's the one who actually does perpetuates the problem by indoctrinating average people. But I don't think it's fair to use that as a litmus test for the average Joe on the street. If you did, you'd wind up having to say you despise about 95% of the American people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaloNoble6 Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 Um, how about the episode I read about where she gave every member of her studio audience a brand new G6 (that's a $25K car). People loved the episode, so I read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wrath Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 With as much money as she's got, I don't really consider that much of a sacrifice. That would be like my dad, who makes a decent living, giving everyone in the audience a lollipop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaloNoble6 Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 The issue is not whether she's sacrificing, it's that she's promoting the idea that it is good to give random strangers something without equal value in return. Of course, in reality, she's not sacrificing because, again, she's peddling altruism, which gets her higher ratings. She's perverting the principle of trade, because on face value, a random person watching the show sees only Oprah giving out cars without her benefiting at all. In fact, she's relishing, on screen, the look of excitement on her audiences' faces because they are getting something with absolutely no strings attached. Notice that no one can truly be altruistic--they are inevitably acting for some kind of gain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wrath Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 I'll buy that. But doesn't the claim that "no one can be truly altruistic" fall under the category of psychological egoism, which goes against Objectivism? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaloNoble6 Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 I've never heard that phrase, but what I meant was that, at minimum, someone who is acting altruistic is doing so because they want to be good. How good? Morally good. They want to be seen, by others or by God or by whatever as a moral person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wrath Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 You've never heard "psychological egoism?" That surprises me. I'm pretty sure it is discussed at length in one of the essays in VoS. I'll post it later if I can find it, but I'm pretty sure it goes explicitly against Objectivism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspector Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 Not arguing just wondering: how did she make money peddling altruism? Moose, I don't know how much more explicit I can make it. Every one of her shows I have seen has been one big giant cry-fest about how so-and-so is down on their luck and THEY COULDN'T HELP IT and "oh, isn't it terrible?" and look how so-and-so is helping them and blah blah blah altruism altruism altruism. It makes me sick to even think about it. This isn't your ordinary man-on-the-street altruism. This isn't your "weekend warrior who lives his life and occasionally indulges in altruism" that you referred to. This is altruism-as-your-central-purpose-in-life altruism. A show devoted ENTIRELY to altruism. I don't know what it is about you that is preventing you from getting mad at this, but I suggest you check your premises. Oprah is PURE EVIL. She isn't Wynard, who peddled garbage but didn't believe in it himself. SHE BELIEVES IT. If you don't believe me, watch her show. And bring a barf bag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wrath Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 Dude, calm down. I wasn't arguing, I was just asking. I've never watched her show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrugging Atlas Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 Yesterday my wife was watching Oprah in our bedroom which is the only room in the house with AC. Thus I was forced to a degree to watch this nonsense. The topic was make-overs. There was a group of about 5 people who worked to make these ugly women better looking. At the end of the show, Oprah address the make-over experts and said," As I always say it takes a village." I think that sums up her approach to life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 Didn't Hillary write a book called, "It takes a Village". Maybe Oprah will be her VP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspector Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 Dude, calm down. I wasn't arguing, I was just asking. I've never watched her show. Did that answer your question, then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelangelo Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 How is Oprah really different then the average person? Is it just because of the large audience that she has, that sets her apart from the rest? Aren't the intellectuals to blame; not some talk show host? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspector Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 (edited) How is Oprah really different then the average person? Is it just because of the large audience that she has, that sets her apart from the rest? Aren't the intellectuals to blame; not some talk show host? I don't get a speech about altruism from the average person. It's quite rare in my daily life to hear about it from random people, and it is the rare person indeed that mentions it in the command-to-abjectly-sacrifice way that is meant by a true altruist. Why? Does the average person that you know erupt constantly in a call for you to sacrifice? How horrible! Also, while the intellectuals are surely to blame, does this excuse Oprah? Does this make her less personally responsible for spewing pure evil to what may well be one of the single largest audiences out there? Even though I recognize that a common thug creates less crime than the intellectuals that allow the numbers of thugs to breed and grow, that does not in any way excuse or lessen the crimes of the thug. It should in no way mitigate one's hatred for a thug or his thuggery. Besides, I did mention Noam Chomsky (a contemporary, living intellectual) in the list of people to hate. I have enough hatred to go around... my hate for Oprah in no way lessens or detracts from my hatred for Kant or Augustine or Marx or Hegel or anyone else who deserves it. I take it from your questions that you don't understand what all the hubbub is about vis a vis Oprah. I doubt I have fully expressed just how bad she is here. You might have to watch her show and see just how much ALTRUISM is her message. The kind of pure, inexcusable altruism that brooks no forgiveness. Edited August 9, 2005 by Inspector Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelangelo Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 Thanks for the quick reply. I was not in anyway making a stance for Oprah, but as I'm new to philosophy I was just probing to understand your stance a little more clearly. I have to admit that I don't watch her show, although I have seen snipits from time to time. I don't get a speech about altruism from the average person. It's quite rare in my daily life to hear about it from random people, and it is the rare person indeed that mentions it in the command-to-abjectly-sacrifice way that is meant by a true altruist. Why? Does the average person that you know erupt constantly in a call for you to sacrifice? How horrible! I think I may have a somewhat biased experience; living in a house where everyone is either a Democrat or a Green. I have to thank Ms. Ayn Rand whom I stumbled upon that made me question many things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspector Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 I was just probing to understand your stance a little more clearly... I think I may have a somewhat biased experience; living in a house where everyone is either a Democrat or a Green. I have to thank Ms. Ayn Rand whom I stumbled upon that made me question many things. Now that I more clearly understand the purpose of your question, I can provide you with a more precise answer: I mentioned Oprah specifically for her advocacy of altruism. Although many people advocate altruism, I set her apart for the fact that the degree of her advocacy is high, the frequency of her advocacy is high, for the fact that she advocates it to a extremely large national audience, and that stylistically, her methods are disgusting to me. To elaborate on degree, she is NOT your ordinary, everyday, "you should sprinkle some altruism into your otherwise selfish life" type, but rather the "altruism as life's primary purpose" type. So it is degree, frequency, methods, and audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodyTooShoes Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 Barbara Boxer !!!!!! As well as the others that have been named, with the exceptions of Sean Hannity and Scalia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wrath Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 Yeah, Boxer is a good one too. I suppose Scalia is arguable, but why in the world would you take Hannity off the list? The man is no less a Christian fascist than Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidOdden Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 As well as the others that have been named, with the exceptions of Sean Hannity and Scalia.What's good about Scalia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Nate Posted August 12, 2005 Report Share Posted August 12, 2005 Yeah, Boxer is a good one too. I suppose Scalia is arguable, but why in the world would you take Hannity off the list? The man is no less a Christian fascist than Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson. I was born and raised Jewish and never had ANY problems listening to Hannity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wrath Posted August 12, 2005 Report Share Posted August 12, 2005 Watch his talkshow on FNC and watch for some separation of church and state issue to be brought up. It will make you want to vomit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaloNoble6 Posted August 12, 2005 Report Share Posted August 12, 2005 I was born and raised Jewish and never had ANY problems listening to Hannity. You have GOT to be kidding. Sean Hannity is a thug and religious zealot rapped into one, a boy trapped in a man's body who has little sense for truth and reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenriz Posted August 16, 2005 Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 One public intellectual who I think I think is pretty despicable is Cornel West. West is a professor of religion who speaks a lot on racism and American "imperialism." His philosophy draws heavily from Anton Chekov, Karl Marx, Nietzsche, and other existential philosophers. He has also been an ideological ally of people like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson and other racial opportunists. One of his books, Race Matters, is required reading at college campuses. Cornel West and Friends by Mike Adams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wrath Posted August 16, 2005 Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 My fiancee was supposed to read that book for what she and I refer to as her "hippie class." I don't think she actually read it though. Just the name of that book pisses me off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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