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Star Wars: Episode Three

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I found Anakin's turn to the dark side expecially underwhelming, and less than convincing. Maybe the horrible dialogue between Padme and Anakin was at the heart of this, but I think it runs deeper. I don't think that when Anakin saved Palpatine and then watched him lightning blast Samuel L. Jackson out the window that that incident would have made Anakin bow down to Palpatine and suddenly be completely loyal to him.

I actually think that the second movie did a better job of showing Anakin's path to the dark side during the whole save mom subplot. That scene gave me chills everytime I watched it, and I could understand why he did what he did. I felt that if I was in that situation that I might break like Anakin did, but I never felt this in the third movie.

That coupled with Lucas's horrible philosophy, I mean come on, it combined Mysticism with Altruism and went as far as saying that only evil people can believe in absolutes, kept me from enjoying the movie. Yes, the eye candy was excellent, but I'll take Episodes 4 and 5 over all the sexy special effects any day.

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I just went and saw it this weekend, and I can sum up my entire reaction in one non-verbal vocalization: Eh.

All the flashing lights gave me a headache. The plot was ridiculous. It also CONTRADICTED happenings later in Episode VI where Luke and Leia have a deep, soul-searching conversation and LEIA REMARKS THAT SHE REMEMBERS HER REAL MOTHER.

Can we have some CONTINUITY HERE, PLEASE?!

I say Eh again to you.

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I thought the movie was worth seeing, if for no other reason than Ewan Mcgregor's acting. Even though so much of the other acting in the movie was flat and wooden, McGregor was great. As one movie critic put it: he seems to have mischief written in his DNA. I loved his line, "Chancellor, Sith Lords are our specialty."

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All the flashing lights gave me a headache.  The plot was ridiculous.  It also CONTRADICTED happenings later in Episode VI where Luke and Leia have a deep, soul-searching conversation and LEIA REMARKS THAT SHE REMEMBERS HER REAL MOTHER.

Leia thinks that Senator Organa's wife is her mother.

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No, that was an honest-to-god foul-up.  In Episode VI, Luke asks Leia, "Leia, do you remember your mother?  Your real mother?"  This indicates that Leia was fully aware that she was adopted.

Not necessarily. In the books its mentioned a few times that Leia and Han's kids remember being very young. So its not that big a stretch to figure since Leia is force sensitive also she could have memories of when she was in the womb or just born.

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Leia remarks that her mother died when she was very young, and that she was very beautiful. She may know that she was beautiful from what she learned of her through the Organas, or even holograms (they didn't use photographs). She didn't say "I remember her holding me in her arms at night, playing with me, etc.." She then says, "I know. Somehow, I've always known", responding to Luke's statement that she is his sister. Remember that that's because she also has the Force, which for those in the Star Wars universe is a means to knowledge (hey, I didn't create it).

In talking about Anakin's turn to the dark side, remember he's been on the path since Episode II when he went on a rampage to kill the Sand People. And, in Episode III, everywhere he turned he was being confused by both sides: he felt untrusted by the Jedi Council (and used as a tool), and he felt safe with Palpatine (up until he figured out his true nature). And, although Anakin says he hates Palpatine for being the Sith, does he really or is he just repeating what his mentors say he must? Also, in Episode I Yoda is apprehensive to even have Anakin begin training because he is too old; a plight that is also referenced in Episode V with Luke (who, of course, is much older even). Apparently, the Jedi know that brainwashing is much easier to maintain and control before the subject has reached a cognitive state of awareness.

There was one inconsistency, perhaps, that is at the end when Yoda tells Obi-Wan that there's a method for fallen Jedi to communicate with the living, and he would teach him the technique. Obi-Wan acts surprised that there is such a method (implying that no one else knows of it). If that is so, how does Anakin (at the end of Episode VI) appear to Luke?

I find this interesting, too, that in a universe where Lucas says that only a Sith deals in absolutes, each individual world is one dimensional; that is, each one is completely of one climate/terrain.

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Not necessarily.  In the books its mentioned a few times that Leia and Han's kids remember being very young.  So its not that big a stretch to figure since Leia is force sensitive also she could have memories of when she was in the womb or just born.

If you have to go to this much effort to explain it away, it was a foul-up, because it detracts from your enjoyment of the movie; your brain is occupied either with formulating various theories to "fix" the problem, or (in my case) just shuts down entirely in disgust.

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WOW! nice thread.

I saw the movie Tuesday night. I used to be a huge Star Wars fan when I was a kid, but these three movies really dissapointed me (perhaps it is a consequence of having a rational philosophy). Yes, the special effects and fight scenes were awesome, but the underlying philosophy really turned me off. Sort of like Return of the Jedi where Luke refuses to fight back (as if killing an aggressor makes you evil) and begs his father to save him.

Bryan, I liked that article on "A Sith Lord Deals in Pragmatism". That was an excellent summary and walking out of that movie, I told my wife: "What do you expect, when someone tells you that in order to be good, you must sacrifice your life for others? That those you love and value are second to complete strangers."

Yoda IS an altruistic moron, and gave Anakin bad advice, and Anakins shift from good to evil was a little quick and not very believable. Hmmm, save the evil sith lord (who concocted this war) and trust that he will teach me to save my wife or let him die. The Jedi may have been taught to wield a light saber, but no one taught them how to reason, that's for sure.

Someone commented about the way the Jedi recruited. To take kids away from their parents before they have memories (memories of valuing someone else) so that they can be brainwashed into good little pinko commies is tantamount to murder. What happens if you decide to leave the order of the Jedi? Will they take you out? Midway through this episode, the Jedi sound like a cult. Anakin could have easily walked away after the war and learned to live his life for his wife, kids and himself.

In the end though, after Obi-Wans comment about Absolutes, I found myself wanting to see Anakin strike him down then and there (Yes, even though Anakins killing spree was reprehensible, especially what he did in the temple).

DS

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The one thing that I was disappointed with was the almost-psychic abilities that the Chancellor had. He was able to predict people's actions so well that he precipitated the whole war, the fall of the jedi, and his own rise to power. I thought that this was very fake, and very unbelieveable, definitely not rational.

I also thought that Anakin's fallw as very fake. When he is told by Palpatine that Palpatine is the Sith Lord, what does he expect when he goes and tells the Jedi Council. Does he really think that they are going to take a Sith Lord to trial, lik the way he took Dooku... :D

But then again, in a world where people ride on giant annoying screaming lizards, and altruists fight collectivist dictators, these flaws were quite minor.

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And, also, when Obi Wan says that "Only the Sith deal in absolutes", isn't that statement an absolute?

I liked it even more when a few moments later, when Vader says that he doesn't see Palpatine as evil "from his point of view" Obi-Wan tells him that if he believes that, he is really lost!

Yeah, Obi-Wan was a little thick-headed in the end there. :D I liked the movie. It exists in a fictional universe, where different magical abilities are clear and objective facts and I'm willing to suspend my criticisms of it and just enjoy the adventure.

Edited by Captain Nate
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Wow some of this criticism just cracks me up. I guess I am just too much of a Star Wars fanboy but of a lot of it shows a complete lack of knowledge of the movies. I think they did a great job of tying everything together.

Palpatine had Force Precognition. Its a Force power that lets you see slightly into the future. I mean they can jump to lightspeed, you have to suspend your disbelief to enjoy Sci-Fi. If you can't go watch something else. Also force users can predict the future. Luke did it in Empire Strikes Back and thats why he left Yoda to save his friends.

Hmmm the Jedi aren't Objectivists thats a real shocker. A reason to dislike the movie well I guess lets dislike every movie ever made except the Fountainhead. Cmon people lighten up. B)

Edited by erik
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Palpatine had Force Precognition. Its a Force power that lets you see slightly into the future. I mean they can jump to lightspeed, you have to suspend your disbelief to enjoy Sci-Fi. If you can't go watch something else. Also force users can predict the future. Luke did it in Empire Strikes Back and thats why he left Yoda to save his friends.

Suspend disbelief, yes, but you lump together 2 examples of science fiction that are actually very different. 1) light speed travel -- this is a fantasy that projects an imaginary technological accomplishment, something beings must achieve with thought, i.e. reason, and 2) someone being able to see the future, which can be seen as a projection of a bad philosophical idea, i.e. the idea that the mind has powers over reality that somehow "get around" the senses. In real life, these are called "delusions". Light speed travel would be called a remarkable achievement.

Hmmm the Jedi aren't Objectivists thats a real shocker. A reason to dislike the movie well I guess lets dislike every movie ever made except the Fountainhead. Cmon people lighten up.  :P

Since this is a forum for users with a certain philosophical orientation/interest, such judgements come with the territory.

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The Star Wars Universe has different rules from ours. A rational mind should able to accept that, learn the rules and then move on. With some of you there is no attempt to do that obviously which is fine. I myself am willing to accept that and get on with the enjoyment of the film.

Its fine to make value judgements but when they are made in ignorance and out of context its pretty annoying to say the least.

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  • 1 month later...

That quote really bothered me, as I know it bothered alot of Objectivists out there. I winced when I heard that and then rolled my eyes, thinking "Well, it is not surprising gi ven the Jedi".

I thought it rather approriate in many ways that the Jedi were wiped out. Not only because if they were not all the fans would be screaming "Hang on...", but because it demonstrates what could easily happen to those whom preach the "good" of sacrificing themselves to help others.

The bit when Anakin expressed his beleif that good and evil are a matter of opinion also bothered me, but as Roque points out, Obi then goes on to criticise him for this beleif. Which contradicts Obi's own earlier statement about it being evil to beleive in absolutes...

It would seem that Lucas does not bother to think through the philosophical implications and nature of his movies much, if at all.

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