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"Africentric" School

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Now that I think about it, Teacher With Expectations could be the name of every one of those motivational-type underdog movies.

Marva Collins was a good example. Extremely high expectations, and no retarded ethno-centric teaching there.

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Weaver said:

The fact that the OP points out thee is a concerted an effort to bring about an 'africentric' approach does indicate a concerted an effort in some areas. It is more difficult to grasp that it is done with the intention to poison, than out of poorly opposed ignorance.

The poison part is my evaluation of the content of the ideas. Not trying to say they are aware the content is poison.

Weaver said:

I doubt ARI is the only organization that wants to change the culture. It might be instructive to discover how wide-scale other efforts might be.

As the post Louie deleted of me defending myself against his claims about me mentioned, in the QM thread I explain that the body that presides over science standards openly promotes Postmodern education and the Smithsonian (an institute for promoting and disseminating knowledge) has writers on record of being "proud" of their constructivist epistemology.. Both books sited in that thread are detailed with such examples of this effort.

If you want more on the debate on STS within the philosophy of science and education you can look up Bloor and STS. As you know I have debated a self proclaimed "science education reformer" who claims to be building an social network based entirely on this nonsense.

Edited by Plasmatic

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Settle down, I'm only saying it reminds me of something a conspiracy theorist would say, e.g.

But if you learned what a conspiracy is (instead of relying on your abject ignorance to accuse people of being conspiracy theorists, and then using your mod privileges to delete their responses), it would stop reminding you of it.

"The corporate elite are threatening and coercing us through a concerted effort, and they pretend it's voluntary trade. Everyone else needs to stop sleepwalking and wake up to see the obvious". I'm suggesting that the worry of a "concerted effort" isn't a valid one.

There are obviously at least two people working together to create afro-centric schools. So how exactly did you decide there's no concerted effort? Edited by Nicky

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I'm just trying to wrap my brain around a collectivist trend that smashes itself into smaller collectivist groups for and assigns "group think" to such basic facts.  It's skepticism meets tribalism on a poster modern scale.  How long can such a contradiction even stand before it implodes upon itself.  

 

Of course, now that I think about it as typing maybe we are seeing the implosion is such cases as Ferguson... 

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But if you learned what a conspiracy is (instead of relying on your abject ignorance to accuse people of being conspiracy theorists, and then using your mod privileges to delete their responses), it would stop reminding you of it.

There are obviously at least two people working together to create afro-centric schools. So how exactly did you decide there's no concerted effort?

Ugh, it was only meant to mean it's like something that a conspiracy theorist would say, in terms of exaggerating threats. All I can say is lighten up a bit (Plasmatic especially), if it's not the best word choice, no big deal. A better comparison may be it struck me like someone saying "Vaccines cause autism, those who don't see it are sleepwalkers". The point is, I was criticizing the idea that there is a real threat. If there is, I'd like to know more. So I asked for more info. Two people working together is not usually what concerted effort would mean, it usually implies a large number of people. And certainly not a threat, although worthy of The Onion.

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Of course, now that I think about it as typing maybe we are seeing the implosion is such cases as Ferguson...

Yeah cause Ferguson is about the lack of pictures of black scientists in schoolbooks...

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Yeah cause Ferguson is about the lack of pictures of black scientists in schoolbooks...

What was Furguson about?

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Wow. Simply wow. I missed this the first time and color me horrified.

I weep for the continued collectivization of society into such group think rot that pretends 1+1=2 is somehow dependent on anything more than the basic child-like facts of reality.
I fear we will see superstitious warding against evil and fetishes to go along with our tribal formation of concepts.

When you are part of a majority culture, whose values and beliefs are constantly affirmed it is easy to say that the only factor is 1+1= 2. But what if you were given a test where

I highly doubt you'd turn around and say that well clearly I am just too stupid to add. There are cultural biases in the test.



+






= ২

Or what about these?

呀 + 呀 = 廿 x 廿 = 皕


I think you'd agree to give these as math solutions would be culturally biased against an english speaker? Thus I think it is fair to say we all accept even math, an objective discipline, can be written in a way to appear culturally biased. Thus educational systems can have biases in them.

And to deny that would be to deny truth. And we should not accept policies which deny truth.


Reidy, on 20 Apr 2015 - 7:21 PM, said:
It's new to me, too. Thomas Sowell pointed out somewhere that whenever individuals, minorities or entire nations (19th-century Japan is his example) have striven successfully to catch up with some role model, they have done whatever they could to emulate that role model: learn the language, read the books, wear the clothes and generally acquire the ethos. Thus, he observed, we can expect programs like this one, promoting cultural separatism, to fail, as in fact they have.


Your premise counters your conclusion. I had to read it several times over just to ensure I was reading it right. Unless this is irony. You point out Japan, a highly nationalistic society who engaged in the highest form of cultural separatism of its time and possibly known to man and who expelled europeans multiple times and even to this day still regards it self as homogeneous culturally and engages in cultural seperatism as an example of integration?

Do you think the Japanese are emulating americans and learning English? They have some of the lowest rates of English speaking!

What the experts in business find are the most successful groups are the ones like the jews and chinese and japanese and etc. who stick to their own kind against a broader majority culture.

Further the overwhelming evidence demonstrates africentric schools as having been succesful.


Quote

"The study, conducted by Ming-Te Wang and James P. Huguley of the University of Pittsburg and Harvard University respectively, found that “racial socialization”—teach ing kids about their culture and involving them in activities that promote racial pride and connection—helps to offset the discrimination and racial prejudices children face by the outside world.
Wang explains:

“Our findings challenge the notion that ‘race blindness’ is a universally ideal parenting approach, especially since previous research has shown that racially conscious parenting strategies at either extreme—either ‘race blindness’ or promoting mistrust of other races—are associated with negative outcomes for African American youth.

"They found racial pride to be the single most important factor in guarding against racial discrimination, and discovered it had a direct impact on the students’ grades, future goals, and cognitive engagement.

Despite fewer instances of multicultural and inclusive learning in school and the increased frequency in which black students are treated more harshly than their peers, Wang’s study shows that teaching kids, especially black children, to take pride in their culture is an integral part of their success.

Wang sums it up:

“Our study provides empirical evidence that the longstanding practice in the African American community of cultivating racial pride and preparing children to face racial bias in society should be considered among appropriate and beneficial practices in parenting Black children.”
"Wang’s study surveyed 630 adolescents from middle class backgrounds to explore how racial discrimination and prejudice in school affects their G.P.A., educational goals, and future aspirations. They found racial pride to be the single most important factor in guarding against racial discrimination, and discovered it had a direct impact on the students’ grades, future goals, and cognitive engagement."


http://www.clutchmagonline.com/2013/01/new-study-black-students-who-are-taught-racial-pride-do-better-in-school/


The concept of forced integration into a eurocentrick system does not do well for black students. the broader eurocentrick system vilinizes and vilifies their culture which causes them to lose interest and be susceptible to a variety of social ills which many whites turn around and mistakenly believe are the CAUSE of their poor performance. Most whites cannot see their own culture around them. This isn't because whites are bad or racist per se, it is quiet normal. Go to japan, and a japanese cannot see how his cultural practices are even japanese. H'ed just see it as normal.

In a multi-cultural society, you will have different cultures with different concepts of normal. and to put one group into a school system which views their culture and practices and way of life as abnormal is a sure way to get alot of them to drop out.



Repairman, on 20 Apr 2015 - 10:04 PM, said:
Hernan Dayoleary,
Would you say that there are more than several Africentric public elementary schools in Africa? My unstudied guess is that there are. And yet, Africa relies on foreign medical teams, construction contractors, and other foreign advisers to lift them out of their blighted and impoverished state of affairs. (And by "foreign", I do not mean only European or American; many are from Asia, and post-colonial states.) Are you suggesting that their schools could furnish Sub-Saharan Africa with more doctors, engineers, and a stable justice system if they would only advance more Afro-centric studies into their public schools? Then please tell me how that sort of change would benefit the United States?

In dealing with Africa we are dealing with 53 or so countries. There are many other factors there than just education. Here we can have rural areas where people have to pay to go to school. In other parts there can be issues of going to school as in physically getting there. Some of these countries which have war going on or ebola haven't had school in the last calendar year.

Now when dealing with the countries who aren't in war and with students who don't have issues getting in to school and can afford all the supplies and don't have issues at home like no electricity. Things that we as westerners take for granted without even thinking about usually. When dealing with these students in the africentric educational system, we find that not only are they amongst the highest performing and best educated in the world, often there are issues that we are just starting to experience here in canada, and that is having TOO MANY educated people.

But to answer your question most directly. Most african countries are NOT using africentric learning systems ANYMORE. Many were until colonialism, but most of them are trying to work within the colonial model and often receive donated textbooks from the west!

I would agree that africentric curriculum would benefit africans, most of whom are still using colonial era texts and teaching. I am not in the united states. But given the research cited above and American history, African americans would stand alot to gain from entering into the africentric school curriculum.

Do african countries sometimes pay foreigners to build things, sure of course. But we still do that here in canada too. In fact even the wealth arab oil states largely rely on westernize firms to run much of their oil facilities and western educated people. And we are talking some oil countries who are on average richer than the richest american states.

Edited by Hernan Dayoleary

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What makes this nonsense hilarious is that in the supposedly "euro-centric" and "white-centric" US education system, white students are not the ethnic group getting the highest grades in math and science: Asians are. 

 

I don't know much about China, but I assure you, in Japan there is no effort to make science and math Japanese-centric or Asian-centric in any way.  You definitely won't find Newton, Franklin, Edison or Einstein replaced by lesser Asian scientists. You won't find Asians given equal status, either: European scientists' place at the very top of the pyramid is fully recognized, and Japanese contributions are put in context objectively.

 

And yet, Japanese students don't feel marginalized or discouraged by all the white faces in their science textbooks. They learn science and math just fine. More than fine, in fact, they're doing better than most. 

 

And the suggestion that there is an African scientist in history who deserves the same recognition as Newton or Einstein is just stupid. No nation that wishes to preserve even a semblance of rationality among its population would ever try to teach children something that moronic.

 

 

Firstly, when Asian (particularly vietnamese refugees and early chinese immigrants) first started showing up here, they were not doing the best in these disciplines. There are numerous studies on the issues in particular the loatian, vietnamese, and pacific islanders and hawaiians had in us schools.  Secondly, the fact that one group who is afflicted by many issues like low self esteem and socialization issues performs well in the eurocentrick system isn't proof the system isn't eurocentric.  I'll always get a kick out of people so immersed in white privilege they make statements like

 

"America isn't racist they elected a black president, racism is over"

"I can't be racist I have a black friend/girl friend"

"School system can't be racist because Asians outperform whites"

 

Asian cultures, well lets rephrase, we are really speaking about Chinese foreign students and immigrants, but not long time immigrants because chinese immigrants from the 1800s here are on average as bad off as the blacks and mexicans and american indian maybe even worse.  Many of whom put all their eggs and basket in education and are focused on scoring highly in grades and nothing else.

 

But their redeeming trait is coming from a culture where rote memorization is highly valued and frankly the only way of learning.  Creativity is given a back seat, class discussion not common at all.  They need rote memorization, chinese has no alphabet, they have to remember every stroke of every word.  So what does this mean. Well despite a racist eurocentric school system, Chinese are able to overcome it simply because their culture just so happens to mesh well into to it in many areas.  Rote memorization will get you through most US classes and math and science pretty well.  But when it comes to creativity, they are sorely lacking, even to their neighbours like the japanese.  China has around 36,000 patents, Japan over 1 million.  China has 10 times the population and about 10 times the land mass and far more natural resources.

So despite the discrimination asian students face, they can still beat europeans in their own system just through rote memorization of facts. 

 

I disagree with you that Japanese people and Japanese culture does not appear in Japanese science textbooks.

And your comparison is flawed because you are trying to compare two different cultures as if they were alike. This is a comparison flaw.  Asian culture is not African culture, African culture is not asian culture.  Your flaw is like saying, Apples grow on trees(Asian is a minority culture), Coconuts grow on trees (African is a minority cultures).  Both are fruits (both are minority cultures).  Therefore if Apples grow in Canada (asians do well in eurocentric system) then coconuts should also grow well in canada (African cultured people should also do well in the eurocentric system).  Anyone can see why this is an extremely flawed argument.

 

The other thing here is where are comparing a diasporic culture (african canadians) a people who were enslaved by white people, had their names, cultures, religion, history, social mores, values stolen from them by whites and were forced to be indoctrinated with white supremacist systems.  It is likely far more damaging to such a people to show them these types of eurocentric systems than it is to say the Japanese, who themselves colonized other asians and are an imperial society themselves.  You might say o hooeey.  But do Asians have to read books in english class like to kill a mocking bird, black like me, mark twain racist books were every 5th word is a racial slurs against asians and showing asians as perpetual victims of whites?  I didn't think so.  It is alot easier to get through content went the content isn't saying your a sub-human.

 

The more apt comparison would be native americans and aboriginals or aboringes to african canadian and americans, that would be more similar, and its not even close who is worse off.  The white man just completely destroyed those natives entire identities and cultures.

 

You are falsely assuming because two things are alike in one respect, they ought be alike in all respects.

African Scientist invented the entire disciplines that Newton and Einstein (who it is highly questionably if he is white or not but certainly was born in europe) studied in.  No self respecting discipline could ignore its founders, african scientist.  Without africans, there'd be no math and no calculus and no physics.  It is pretty silly eurocentricks can write entire books and ignore the founders of the actual disciplines.  It'd be like writing a book on the founding of America and leaving out all the white people.  It'd be a pretty silly book.  Which is what eurocentrism usually does.

 

 

I'm just trying to wrap my brain around a collectivist trend that smashes itself into smaller collectivist groups for and assigns "group think" to such basic facts.  It's skepticism meets tribalism on a poster modern scale.  How long can such a contradiction even stand before it implodes upon itself.  

 

Of course, now that I think about it as typing maybe we are seeing the implosion is such cases as Ferguson... 

 

Not sure how Ferguson relates to this at all.  Last I checked mike brown and darren wilson both went to eurocentrick schools.  Perhaps if they had both gone to africentric schools the boy still be alive.  But it is quiet obvious that 40% drop out rate is the best white teachers in canada can do.  They are either purposely screwing blacks education, or just can't do better.  I choose the later, so it is best blacks leave a system with a 40% failure rate.

 

I also find it funny that the highest dropout rate in toronto is among the 43% dropout portuguese who profess to be whites.  Then you have the quebec province with a drop out rate of the same amount which is even more embarassing given how much more easy it is to graduate in quebec than ontario (you just have to show up and they'll pass you was my experience).

 

If the white man's own solution to his own education system can't get the white man better than a 43% drop out rate, how is the white man's solution going to get blacks better than a 40% dropout rate.

 

-What I do find of interest, is that none of these posters who claim how much they care about education actually asked or  considers here what is in the best interest of the kids dropping out?  What if Africentric schooling will keep them in school and graduated and engaged in the learning process?

 

-I also find it interesting than rather consider how eurocentrism is damaging to non-whites they look for any other excuse that it is not racism in the system and then revert to racially charged stereotypes of blacks.  Mainly that they are lazy.  But when I ask a eurocentrick supporter, why are blacks lazy.  They say they don't want to do the school work. Then when I ask them. Why don't they want to do the school work.  They claim because their parents don't make or want them or they have some baby mama drama and the black father ran away and they are uneducated.  

 

Then when I cite the states that 21% of Jamaican canadians have college degrees compared to just 15% of canadians overall and 19% of african canadians have ph.d and master degrees compared to just 15% of canadians overall (statscan).  And that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has found that black fathers are "more involved with their kids on a daily basis than fathers from other racial groups." http://mic.com/articles/90965/6-actual-facts-shatter-the-biggest-stereotypes-of-black-fathers.  Thus black canadians are on average more educated than their white counterparts (and this is no surprise because most are recent immigrants or no more than 3rd generation).

 

-At this point it becomes quiet clear that it isn't bad parents, no it is something else.  And usually then the eurocentrick, if they are reasonable is willing to consider it may be eurocentrism.

 

-And then I propose an alternative explanation, which is perhaps the eurocentrick system which is biased against students of color and particularly against african and carribean students, perhaps it is the latent and often blatant biases cause these students to lose interest in the subjects and eurocentrick education at large.  Perhaps seeing books full of people who look like the people who colonized and enslaved their ancestors, or portraying their race and culture in a constantly negative light causes them to become disinterest.  And they lose the desire to continue in and participate in a system which is clearly biased against them.  This would offer a far better explanation.

 

For instance, studies demonstrate that black children ENTER school with a HIGHER enthusiasm for learning than white students. But by around grade 3 this trend reverses and blacks students interest declines.  Studies also demonstrate that black students at all socio-economic levels by this point are under-performing their white counter parts on median.  Including up  to and over 350k+ income per year.  Perhaps this is because no tutor nor amount of money can make up for a broke system which is anti-black and eurocentric.  What eurocentrick people view as laziness is actually disinterest.

 

I also understand why eurocentricly educated people are inclined to confuse disinterest with an anti-black system with laziness or rather be completely unaware of how eurocentrism is anti-black in the first place.

 

In the eurocentric view, if someone doesn't want to do work they are lazy. End of discussion, that is it.  and it is true of a white student from that culture. But not of someone from a different culture. Eurocentrism. attempts to treat everyone through the lens of color blindness and that lens pretends that all are white and everyone is treated as if they where white. That is your culture shouldn't matter,  And this is dangerous because culture does matter.  Because culture differences no longer become just differences. Cultural differences now become wrong. Because if culture doesn't exist, you can't have different culture.  You are wrong and I am right.  And this ends up vilifying an entire culture rather than embracing it.  It is essentially a form of cultural intolerance and cultural imperialism. In otherwords, culture color blindness is a subtle form of structural racism, while not intended to be racist by its practicers, usually the opposite, it assigns white to be the norm and pretends colors don't exist.  Well if you are a person of color, and I am white, and I am color blind, and I cannot see your color.  Then I cannot see you.

 

And if I cannot see you, i certainly cannot respect you and I will likely write you out of my history books and ignore your culture.

Which is precisely what happens in eurocentrick mainstream schools

 

The question I have is, if the white man's solutions can't even solve his own dropping out problems, how is the white man's solution going to solve black people's dropping out problems?

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Hernan Dayoleary,

 What is the purpose of education? Could we not say that it is the integration of knowledge, accompanied by the independence of thinking skills? The development of mental practices that allow the child to think for his/her self and thereby discover the truth?

 

You have failed to explain how the central focus of Africa as an ideal cultural example can improve public schools in the Untied States.

 

Repairman, on 20 Apr 2015 - 10:04 PM, said:
Hernan Dayoleary,

Now when dealing with the countries who aren't in war and with students who don't have issues getting in to school and can afford all the supplies and don't have issues at home like no electricity. Things that we as westerners take for granted without even thinking about usually. When dealing with these students in the africentric educational system, we find that not only are they amongst the highest performing and best educated in the world, often there are issues that we are just starting to experience here in canada, and that is having TOO MANY educated people.

But to answer your question most directly. Most african countries are NOT using africentric learning systems ANYMORE. Many were until colonialism, but most of them are trying to work within the colonial model and often receive donated textbooks from the west!

 

The basis of your argument is undermined by your admission that Africa does not deem it appropriate to use an Africentric learning system. Is this the reason for the slow rate of development in those countries, or is it the donated textbooks? Either way, the war and diseases cannot be blamed on the colonial experience, but only on the leaders and warlords of those regions. And the cultural biases of their leaders are formed from more than a half century of Arficanization. The cultural shift toward tribalism in Rwanda, for example, was not caused by the public educational system of the United States. And when we are discussing any public education system, the question of bearing the cost is always at issue. As a corollary to that question is the curriculum. One common argument in the US is whether or not we have enough "God" in our public schools. The general response is that if you want to teach a religious creed, enroll your child in a parochial school. I would recommend the same for any child you believe has a special need to be Afro-centric. And you can pick up the cost. The answer to the failures in any public school system are never as easy as they seem on the surface. Nonetheless, the problems are there, and they can be resolved.

 

And perhaps you could explain the problem of having "TOO MANY educated people."

Edited by Repairman

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Sure we could agree the purpose of education is to gain knowledge and thinking skills.

 

Actually I have cited peer reviewed studies from Harvard University explaining why africentric learning is the ideal cultural learning experience for black students in public schools.  So you either didn't read what I wrote, or forgot it.

 

Hernan Dayoleary,

 What is the purpose of education? Could we not say that it is the integration of knowledge, accompanied by the independence of thinking skills? The development of mental practices that allow the child to think for his/her self and thereby discover the truth?

 

You have failed to explain how the central focus of Africa as an ideal cultural example can improve public schools in the Untied States.

 

The basis of your argument is undermined by your admission that Africa does not deem it appropriate to use an Africentric learning system. Is this the reason for the slow rate of development in those countries, or is it the donated textbooks? Either way, the war and diseases cannot be blamed on the colonial experience, but only on the leaders and warlords of those regions. And the cultural biases of their leaders are formed from more than a half century of Arficanization. The cultural shift toward tribalism in Rwanda, for example, was not caused by the public educational system of the United States. And when we are discussing any public education system, the question of bearing the cost is always at issue. As a corollary to that question is the curriculum. One common argument in the US is whether or not we have enough "God" in our public schools. The general response is that if you want to teach a religious creed, enroll your child in a parochial school. I would recommend the same for any child you believe has a special need to be Afro-centric. And you can pick up the cost. The answer to the failures in any public school system are never as easy as they seem on the surface. Nonetheless, the problems are there, and they can be resolved.

 

And perhaps you could explain the problem of having "TOO MANY educated people."

 

 

In pre-colonial period Africa was following the africentric model.  It is the model that gave us the 2nd largest empire of its time after genghis khan and the richest nation and richest man in the world the mali empire and mansa musa.  Most of Africa followng a eurocentric system has no choice.  Many Africans are simply unaware, other Africans have been put through a colonial system which is indeed eurocentric and erases their own history or ignores it so have no knowledge.  Take for instance someone going to a missionary school.  Well the missionaries are white eurocentricks.  So what are the students learning?  Eurocentrism.  Your argument rest on not only faulty but actually conflicting premises.  On the one hand you admit most of africa is not using africentric education but eurocentric education.  Then you turn around and attempt to blame not eurocentrism but africentrism for its ills.   The wars and disease can be entirely blamed on the colonial experience and "World war 3" aka the cold war, which was a war fought out between the usa and its allies against communism over the 3-rd world aka any non-nato non soviet country.  And who is to say colonialism has ended in africa.  

 

It is quiet clear the french army is still in control of over a dozen nations in africa where the french army still has bases and controls the governments as puppets.  Rwanda is the perfect example of French controlling africa and running it into the ground and committing and carrying out genocide through the french 5th brigade which was murdering the french's long time enemy the tutsi who opposed french colonials from day one.  Thankful Paul Kagame was able to defeat the french and throw them out of Rwanda and now Rwanda is able to start to prosper.

 

It is also quiet ridiculous you try to blame Africans for Rwandan genocide which france's president has already apologized for France conducting!

 

 

The independent commission in Rwanda found France was the one training all the killers and commanding them 

 

 

An independent Rwandan commission said France was aware of preparations for the genocide and helped train the ethnic Hutu militia perpetrators.

The report also accused French troops of direct involvement in the killings.

It named 33 senior French military and political figures that it said should be prosecuted. France has previously denied any such responsibility.

Among those named in the report were the late former President, Francois Mitterrand, and the then Prime Minister Edouard Balladur.

Two men who went on to become prime minister were also named - Alain Juppe, the foreign minister at the time, and his then chief aide, Dominique de Villepin.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7542418.stm

 

France finally apologies for Rwandan genocidef the major outside players in the 1994 Rwandan genocide, France perhaps has the most to be sorry for. The French were the most powerful foreign ally of the regime that carried out the bloodbath, yet instead of disabusing extremist ethnic Hutus of their fears about minority ethnic Tutsis, it reinforced them

http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/africa/france-finally-apologies-for-rwandan-genocide

 

 

 

Kagame notably said that France had not "done enough to save lives" by mounting Operation Turquoise in the west of the country, and had not only been complicit but "an actor" in the massacre of Tutsis.

He pointed to "the direct role of Belgium and France in the political preparation of the genocide, and the participation of the latter in its actual execution".

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/06/rwandan-president-france-genocide

 

 

Again Eurocentrism blinds eurocentricks to their own destructive role in destroying other countries and carrying out genocide in Rwanda.  It is the kind of thing that allows you to bomb afghanistan and a dozen other middle eastern countries for decades and then wonder why anyone would want to bomb twin towers/america.

 

Rwanda was a French ethnic cleansing of their political opponents, this is what all the evidence shows and what the independent commissions have found.

 

Why not any child who wants to continue eurocentrick education go to the private system?  O yes because eurocentrism is the norm right?  Why should eurocentrism be the only publicly funded system, why should non-whites have to pay into a system that denies their existence?

I am not sure where you get the idea in a multicultural country that only white culture should get public funding or any recognition, it sounds alot like the same old US based segregation.

 

Luckily in Ontario we don't have that problem.  Any group of parents can get a school so long as they can get 40 students to sign up here, publicly funded.  The only exceptions are jewish, muslim and non-catholic, non-protestant christian schools.  In Toronto we have over 70+ centric schools, mostly, white centric or eurocentric, english, italian, ukranian, greek, german, chinese, indian, french africentric, all boys, all girls, lgbt centric, gay centric, catholic centric, aboriginal centric.

 

So to bring the discussion back round again.  It comes to an issue of basic fairness and hypocrisy.  If you are going to have 12 different eurcentric schools, and several asian centric schools.  Don't cry when african and carribeans open their own school.  School should be about learning first.  Whichever method is most effective should be used.  We cannot allow political correctness to stand in the way of children's education.  And if seperating boys from girls and asians from whites and blacks from non-blacks is the best way for children to learn.  Then so be it.  They'll have their who adult lives to meet different people.

 

 Too many educated people is a problem in several african countries and canada is experiencing as well.  What happens when you have too many engineers, doctors, lawyers, accountants bankers, stem majors etc.  No jobs for highly skilled people.  That is when a society becomes dangerous because you have alot of smart people who are angry with no jobs.  They did everything society told them to and still they are screwed.

 

Americans don't think of having too many educated people.  I know there is a large sub culture of americans who love to do auto-work and are good with their hands and building things.  What happens when few people want to work in the trades

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Not sure how Ferguson relates to this at all.  Last I checked mike brown and darren wilson both went to eurocentrick schools.  Perhaps if they had both gone to africentric schools the boy still be alive.  But it is quiet obvious that 40% drop out rate is the best white teachers in canada can do.  They are either purposely screwing blacks education, or just can't do better.  I choose the later, so it is best blacks leave a system with a 40% failure rate.

 

 

Ferguson is a prime example of people thinking in terms of collectivism instead of basic facts of reality. 

 

A known criminal charges an officer and when the officer defends himself the first thing everyone looks at is not that basic fact, which is the only relevant facts, but instead incidentals like their appearance.  Why?  Because of collectivism.  Because of this Social-Appearance-Ancestor nonsense that says random facts of appearance somehow is relevant to a officer defending himself when a known criminal charges him.  

 

As for white teachers or black teachers or whatever being involved in a 40% drop out rate.  It does not matter.  

 

1+1=2 no matter what the person who says it looks like.  If a kid cannot grasp 1+1=2 you blame the teaching method, not some completely laughable random fact like the person's appearance. 

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What was Furguson about?

 

A cop in Ferguson arrested a known criminal who may have been involved in a local incident that evening, but the man charged him in what several witnesses said "He looked like a Linebacker (football player) charging the officer".  The office warned him then shot him to defend himself.  

 

What should have been a standard review to make sure the officer was justified in defending himself became a national media circus since the criminal was black and the office was white.  The media was outraged and people rioted when a judicial review found the officer innocent. Since then such random facts of appearance are being pointed out by special interest lobbies and the media for every police incident.  

 

This is going to me like the McDonald's coffee lawsuit in long term implications sending us down the rabbit hole.  

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Ferguson is a prime example of people thinking in terms of collectivism instead of basic facts of reality. 

 

A known criminal charges an officer and when the officer defends himself the first thing everyone looks at is not that basic fact, which is the only relevant facts, but instead incidentals like their appearance.  Why?  Because of collectivism.  Because of this Social-Appearance-Ancestor nonsense that says random facts of appearance somehow is relevant to a officer defending himself when a known criminal charges him.  

 

As for white teachers or black teachers or whatever being involved in a 40% drop out rate.  It does not matter.  

 

1+1=2 no matter what the person who says it looks like.  If a kid cannot grasp 1+1=2 you blame the teaching method, not some completely laughable random fact like the person's appearance. 

 

 

 

No proof brown was a "known criminal". No proof officer defended himself, no cop admits to murdering civilians so his own account can hardly constitute "proof".

The only thing known for certain is Wilson shot Brown and killed him, that is the only fact here.  Everything else is speculative on our parts, we weren't there.

 

He claims it was self defense, which seems dubious at best.  Brown's friend said Brown was executed.  Brown was murdered, so he has no say.  Other eye witnesses give conflicting accounts.  No one really knows what the facts of the day were except Brown, Wilson and Johnson.  Brown is dead, and Wilson and Johnson give conflicting accounts.  When you ignore race, color, history, and collectivism you have a situation where one man, shot a teen who was walking with his friend.  The man who did the shooting claims it was self defense, the teens friend said he was executed.  The forensic evidence isn't grossly inconsistent with either account.  Both could be PLAUSIBLE.  This is likely why you have so much anger.  Then throw all the collectivism on it and you get an even more heated situation.

 

1+1=2, but culture matters.  And to pretend it doesn't matter in education is in and of it self the ultimate form of collectivism

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A cop in Ferguson...  

Not sure if you were responding as a way to reply to 2046, but my question was intended to get him to own up to the implications behind his hit-and-run post. :)

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Hernan Dayoleary,

 You have failed (again) to explain the benefit to an Afro-centric conversion in the United States public schools. I did read your posts (including post #33), and I did read the links you provided.The link you provided to Clutch Magazine merely pointed out the benefits of your argued African-pride studies as to how that would affect African-American children. Are you suggesting that an Afrocentric program is best for Hispanic-American children? To say nothing of the many other racial minority groups excluded in such a program, certainly Caucasian children will likely be the minority in public schools sometime within the next fifty years. In this context, what you're arguing for is a reversal of the undesirable racial discrimination roles between the children of Euro-Americans and Afro-Americans, rather than anything that remotely resembles equality. Incidentally, I am not advocating equality.

 

I am not an egalitarian. I would never claim to be. But so far, I have not seen any posts suggesting that there is anything superior about having a "Euro-centric" school system, because so far, you are the only one imaging that such a thing exists. The Clutch article made no such claim either. Rather, you make poorly veiled accusations of racism to anyone who challenges your assertions, accusation that any rational person would find repugnant. Your belief that all of the evil in the world is the result of white-aggression against non-whites exposes your prejudice. Your argument is simply flawed. There are so many flaws in your argument, (to say nothing of your spelling, grammar, and composition structure) that to address every one of your fallacies would require an entire volume. Rather, I will address some key points, beginning with a point of common ground: Public schools in the United States are in trouble.

 


Why not any child who wants to continue eurocentrick education go to the private system?  O yes because eurocentrism is the norm right?  Why should eurocentrism be the only publicly funded system, why should non-whites have to pay into a system that denies their existence?

I am not sure where you get the idea in a multicultural country that only white culture should get public funding or any recognition, it sounds alot like the same old US based segregation.

 

1) Indeed, why should non-whites have to pay into a system that fails them. I would not agree with your assertion that the public schools system denies their existence. That is easily enough disputed by the mere fact that schools are funded based on the numbers of pupils enrolled. Therefore, denying their existence would only result in short funding the school. As to the more relevant matter, that is, why should anyone have to pay for such a broken system, my answer is to expand the private schools. Eventually, the costs of public schools could be reduced, and even eliminated. You, for example, could open your own Afro-centric school, and the funding would be a matter of your accounting. I would encourage you to do exactly that, and then you could prove your case. However, I think you had better improve your English writing skills if you wish to make a convincing educator in North America. In an ideal capitalist society, parents would be the ones who pay for their own children's expenses.

 

2) You have not adequately defined what makes for a proper Afro-centric education. You have suggested that pictures of African faces appear in math books. How does that improve a child's understand of the principles of mathematics? In science, who are these African scientists that blazed the trail for Einstein? The fundamentals of mathematics applied in the global economy are primarily based on a composite of principles originating in ancient Greece, and improved by the use of Arabic numerals. Algebra is also credited to the Arabs.

 

Regarding history, I will grant you some credibility for pointing out the problems of openly discussing race-relations for most of America's past. Honest discussions have led to emotional outbursts. Trying to edit the history of Africans in America, from the Colonial Era to the present, could be an entirely separate article. But honesty is important, and anything less is cheating the student, even if it spares his/her emotions.

 

I am by no means suggesting that African studies could not provide useful knowledge to anyone, but making African studies the central focus of an entire educational system would be no different than making Mayan studies the central focus of an entire educational system. The Mayans accomplished many amazing feats, but in the modern mainstream of changing economic currents, they simply aren't that important. Fascinating, yes; important, no. If it makes you feel better to know that people with a common quality you share made a significant accomplishment, enjoy the feeling while it lasts. It does not help a person looking for economic advancement to know that some unrelated person who lived a hundred years ago did something significant. Which brings me to:

 


 Too many educated people is a problem in several african countries and canada is experiencing as well.  What happens when you have too many engineers, doctors, lawyers, accountants bankers, stem majors etc.  No jobs for highly skilled people.  That is when a society becomes dangerous because you have alot of smart people who are angry with no jobs.  They did everything society told them to and still they are screwed.

 

Americans don't think of having too many educated people.  I know there is a large sub culture of americans who love to do auto-work and are good with their hands and building things.  What happens when few people want to work in the trades

3) "Too many educated people" do not constitute a national problem. Too many people incapable of thinking independently, on the other hand, is more likely the problem. Schools do not necessarily teach people to think independently, but in a social order with fewer governmental restrictions barring one from operating a business, even uneducated people can survive. Maybe if some of those excess engineers would do some auto-work, they would solve their own employment problems. Simply because "few people want to work in the trades" is no excuse for taking no initiative.

 

I wish I had the time to debunk the rest of the fallacies of your argument, but I don't have all day.

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No proof brown was a "known criminal". No proof officer defended himself, no cop admits to murdering civilians so his own account can hardly constitute "proof".

The only thing known for certain is Wilson shot Brown and killed him, that is the only fact here.  Everything else is speculative on our parts, we weren't there.

 

He claims it was self defense, which seems dubious at best.  Brown's friend said Brown was executed.  Brown was murdered, so he has no say.  Other eye witnesses give conflicting accounts.  No one really knows what the facts of the day were except Brown, Wilson and Johnson.  Brown is dead, and Wilson and Johnson give conflicting accounts.  When you ignore race, color, history, and collectivism you have a situation where one man, shot a teen who was walking with his friend.  The man who did the shooting claims it was self defense, the teens friend said he was executed.  The forensic evidence isn't grossly inconsistent with either account.  Both could be PLAUSIBLE.  This is likely why you have so much anger.  Then throw all the collectivism on it and you get an even more heated situation.

 

1+1=2, but culture matters.  And to pretend it doesn't matter in education is in and of it self the ultimate form of collectivism

 

Pa'Lease.  The man had a record - FACT.  He was investigated due to a crime that night - FACT.  The man charged the officer according to witness - FACT. 

 

The only speculation is the real motivation of collectivists who judge people by skin color instead of facts.

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1+1=2, but culture matters.  And to pretend it doesn't matter in education is in and of it self the ultimate form of collectivism

 

And this is what is destroying Western Civilization. 

 

Claiming 1+1=2 is dependent on the zip code I am born under is the ultimate form of aborting reality.  

 

1+1=2 as an individual man = Collectivism?

 

From your posts I judge you to me a smart guy.  You can do better than that contradiction.  

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And this is what is destroying Western Civilization. 

 

Claiming 1+1=2 is dependent on the zip code I am born under is the ultimate form of aborting reality.  

 

1+1=2 as an individual man = Collectivism?

 

From your posts I judge you to me a smart guy.  You can do better than that contradiction.  

 

Do you think there is no cultural differences that the average person can easily understand the difference between

1+1=2

 

+= ২

 

We all know 95% of Americans or more know 1+1 = 2 but don't know what the second lines means.  pretend culture doesn't matter is foolish.

Why can't you own up to truth?

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Pa'Lease.  The man had a record - FACT.  He was investigated due to a crime that night - FACT.  The man charged the officer according to witness - FACT. 

 

The only speculation is the real motivation of collectivists who judge people by skin color instead of facts.

 

I don't know if Mike Brown had a record, if he did I was unaware.  The problem is past behaviour is no solid predictor of future behaviour.  Because if it is, there are allegations against darren wilson abusing his power in the past and working with a police department so racist it was disbanded.

 

While Brown seemingly did take cigars, he wasn't stopped for that, Darren Wilson didn't know that according to the sheriff and himself.  Wilson claims he stopped him for walking in the street.

 

The claim of him charging the officer is difficult for me to believe.  Firstly Johnson who is an eye witness said it didn't go down like that.  The other factor is using common sense.  Wilson said that Brown called him a pussy and said you won't shoot me.  But then Wilson shot him and shot at him several times.  Brown ran away.  Wilson claims Brown turned around after running away and then tried to run through the hail of bullets Brown let off.  That story sounds more like something from a movie than reality.  Who runs away, turns around mid-stride from a cop chasing them with a gun who already shot them, and tries to run through bullets?

 

Such a story makes no sense.  It is just far more believeable a man who was punched in the face, showed he was trigger happy,got pissed off enough to jump out his van and chase someone down the street (Rather than call for backup and wait for back up and tail him in the car) and then decided to execute the guy.

 

 

 A person who was shot in the finger and shot at 3 times and ran away.  It seems odd they'd turn around after being shot and try to run through bullets, I amsure after the first 3-4 shots hit him, he didn't think he was a pussy anymore.

 

You are the biggest collectivist here.  You can only see skin color, you can't understand the concept of a cop just getting angry and shooting someone who ran from them.

 

1000.jpg

 

But then again, if this wasn't on tape, you'd whine collectivism and play the race card as is your expertise.

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Hernan Dayoleary,

 You have failed (again) to explain the benefit to an Afro-centric conversion in the United States public schools. I did read your posts (including post #33), and I did read the links you provided.The link you provided to Clutch Magazine merely pointed out the benefits of your argued African-pride studies as to how that would affect African-American children. Are you suggesting that an Afrocentric program is best for Hispanic-American children? To say nothing of the many other racial minority groups excluded in such a program, certainly Caucasian children will likely be the minority in public schools sometime within the next fifty years. In this context, what you're arguing for is a reversal of the undesirable racial discrimination roles between the children of Euro-Americans and Afro-Americans, rather than anything that remotely resembles equality. Incidentally, I am not advocating equality.

 

 

 

I am not an egalitarian. I would never claim to be. But so far, I have not seen any posts suggesting that there is anything superior about having a "Euro-centric" school system, because so far, you are the only one imaging that such a thing exists. The Clutch article made no such claim either. Rather, you make poorly veiled accusations of racism to anyone who challenges your assertions, accusation that any rational person would find repugnant. Your belief that all of the evil in the world is the result of white-aggression against non-whites exposes your prejudice. Your argument is simply flawed. There are so many flaws in your argument, (to say nothing of your spelling, grammar, and composition structure) that to address every one of your fallacies would require an entire volume. Rather, I will address some key points, beginning with a point of common ground: Public schools in the United States are in trouble.

 

 

1) Indeed, why should non-whites have to pay into a system that fails them. I would not agree with your assertion that the public schools system denies their existence. That is easily enough disputed by the mere fact that schools are funded based on the numbers of pupils enrolled. Therefore, denying their existence would only result in short funding the school. As to the more relevant matter, that is, why should anyone have to pay for such a broken system, my answer is to expand the private schools. Eventually, the costs of public schools could be reduced, and even eliminated. You, for example, could open your own Afro-centric school, and the funding would be a matter of your accounting. I would encourage you to do exactly that, and then you could prove your case. However, I think you had better improve your English writing skills if you wish to make a convincing educator in North America. In an ideal capitalist society, parents would be the ones who pay for their own children's expenses.

 

 

 

 

2) You have not adequately defined what makes for a proper Afro-centric education. You have suggested that pictures of African faces appear in math books. How does that improve a child's understand of the principles of mathematics? In science, who are these African scientists that blazed the trail for Einstein? The fundamentals of mathematics applied in the global economy are primarily based on a composite of principles originating in ancient Greece, and improved by the use of Arabic numerals. Algebra is also credited to the Arabs.

 

Regarding history, I will grant you some credibility for pointing out the problems of openly discussing race-relations for most of America's past. Honest discussions have led to emotional outbursts. Trying to edit the history of Africans in America, from the Colonial Era to the present, could be an entirely separate article. But honesty is important, and anything less is cheating the student, even if it spares his/her emotions.

 

I am by no means suggesting that African studies could not provide useful knowledge to anyone, but making African studies the central focus of an entire educational system would be no different than making Mayan studies the central focus of an entire educational system. The Mayans accomplished many amazing feats, but in the modern mainstream of changing economic currents, they simply aren't that important. Fascinating, yes; important, no. If it makes you feel better to know that people with a common quality you share made a significant accomplishment, enjoy the feeling while it lasts. It does not help a person looking for economic advancement to know that some unrelated person who lived a hundred years ago did something significant. Which brings me to:

 

 

 

 

 

 

3) "Too many educated people" do not constitute a national problem. Too many people incapable of thinking independently, on the other hand, is more likely the problem. Schools do not necessarily teach people to think independently, but in a social order with fewer governmental restrictions barring one from operating a business, even uneducated people can survive. Maybe if some of those excess engineers would do some auto-work, they would solve their own employment problems. Simply because "few people want to work in the trades" is no excuse for taking no initiative.

 

I wish I had the time to debunk the rest of the fallacies of your argument, but I don't have all day.

 

I am not suggesting afro-centric program is best for hispanic or non-african cultured peoples.  You are right, I say nothing of the other racial and cultural minorities groups because I don't pretend to be able to solve their problems.  I suspect though a hispanic would be best qualified to solve a hispanic cultural problem. Unlike Eurocentrism, afrocentrism does't claim to be able to solve the problems of cultures it may not fully understand.  You should ask the hispanics what education system works for them.  You are mistaken if you think I am arguing everyone should be forced into africentric schools the same way they are forced into eurocentric schools.  i do agree that would just be tantamount to a reversal of the racist eurocentrick system.  I don't advocate equality but rather equity.

 

hernanday said:

I do not believe a eurocentric curriculum is superior.  Not sure where you got that idea from.  If you don't like to be accused of being racist, stop behaving in a racist manner.  If you didn't do it, I couldn't accuse you of it.  Where did I say all the evil in the world is done by whites.  That is quiet silly.  Not all the evil is done by whites, just every example you have brought up.  If you bring up the Rwandan genocide that the whites take responsibility for and have been found by the courts to have organized and been in charge of, who else should I blame? You brought it up not me.

 

 

It is ironic you with your numerous broken sentences and poor English attempts to criticize my own.  I don't oppose a voucher style system.  The schools only acknowledge the students but denies them in the curriculum which are white centric.  The whole point of the eurocentric school system is to train children to be future soldiers.  Paying for education runs counter to this because rich people no longer want to fight wars.

 

hernanday said

 

Children need to be excited about the topics they are studying.  Black students get more excited about these subjects when they see faces that look like them, it is more relate-able.  The child will stay excited enough to understand the principles.  The Africans invented math and physics.  We have great engineers and mathematicians and physicist like Imhotep, Amenhotep of Hapu, Senemut in many other cases we don't even have the names of the mathematicians.  We have for instances over 700,000 manuscripts in mali all pre-colonial many of them on math and astronomy (physics before it was called physics) but with no author so cannot be contributed to anyone person.  We find this amongst the dogon and the egyptians as well.

 

The other thing is the vast majority of "greek" mathematicians are actually "greeks" who studied their entire lives in Egypt and Africa and borrowed African and Egyptian theories, translated them to Greek and are given credit by modern eurocentrics as the "discoverers".  Pythagorus is the perfect example.  Was a "Greek" studied in egypt, and and is credited by eurocentrics with discovering a theory he was taught by the egyptians aka pythagorum's theory.  The eurocentricks don't dispute these "Greeks" studied in Egypt, they just deny they stole the theories, even though the documents still exist showing that pythagoras didn't discover/invent this.

 

Additionally.  The eurocentricks claim that the ancient greeks are white (although that is changing) they also claim the "Arabs" are white too.  The africentrics disagree with both of these claims.  Rather it is the position of the africentrics, that the greek civilization was in essence a black one an offshoot of the mande mandig civilization.  The arabs you credit with algebra, where black african moors from their perspective.  It is obvious the two views are not going to agree on this.  But since you are asking me who they are going to put, I am telling you.  Algebra would be credited in an africentric scholar to the blackamoors and black arabs who created the libraries in spain and portugal which were used to start oxford university in england.  Much of the "Greek achievements" to the africentrics are egyptian achievements copied into greek.  But it doesn't matter because they view them to be a black civilization anyways so they'd still be attributed to black mathematicians.

 

On the last point, the studies have said that we find no similar benefit to whites from teaching these styles which foster racial pride.  I can only speculate only because they already enjoy white privilege and identities are constantly re-affirmed it does nothing to show MORE white people in the books.

 

 

 

 

Most of what you claim to be fallacies is attributed to what I notice are your poor reading skills or  most often eurocentrick blinders.  You make statements like well the arabs discovered algebra and Greeks discovered math.  Without considering the possibility that the africentrics disagree with your premise that the Arabs and Greeks are whites.  Rather they hold the black moors invented these "Arab" achievements and the ancient Greeks were blacks.  Because you are incapable of considering the moors were black  :blink:  or that the Greeks were black any argument with such a premise appears to you as a flaw.  When in fact the argument isn't flawed, you just disagree with the premise.

 

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Did anyone else catch the script error in "The Marva Collins Story" identifying the phrase "Muy bien" means "Very good" as in French, rather than Spanish? (Approx. 1h:05m)

 

Hernan Dayoleary, are you advocating a position that the different races of humanity form concepts differently without respect to the languages and/or symbols chosen to represent them with?

 

1+1=2 (in conventional mathematics)

+= ২ in Hindi

or in crude Chinese

呀 + 呀 = 廿 x 廿 = 皕 which translates to Yeah + Yeah = Twenty + Twenty = Bi or Ah ah + x = twenty twenty x = bi

 

Still waters are said to run deep, while muddy waters only appear to be so.

Much of what you have presented here appears to be, as put in Latin, argumentum verbosium.

Edited by dream_weaver

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