Obama Civilian Security

[Jake_Ellison]

I think Obama's just an idiot, and he'll retract the whole thing tomorrow, and we can just forget about it.

That said, let's assume that he means it, and he becomes president. Could he then push this idea through, and make it a reality?

Here's my take on the contents of the video itself (I haven't seen the whole speech, but I can't imagine how it could be misinterpreted because of the lack of context):

A civilian security force, that's just as well funded?

Isn't that a second military? What exactly would distinguish a 450 billion $/year security force from our current 450 bn/year security force, the military?

What makes such a force "civilian" in nature? The only thing I can think of is that they might be able to be deployed on american soil, without that pesky "habeas corpus" getting in the way.

Please, someone tell me why I'm wrong, because I don't want to be right on this one.

Edited November 2, 2008 by Jake_Ellison

[~Sophia~]

I think Obama's just an idiot, and he'll retract the whole thing tomorrow, and we can just forget about it.

That said, let's assume that he means it, and he becomes president. Could he then push this idea through, and make it a reality?

Here's my take on the contents of the video itself (I haven't seen the whole speech, but I can't imagine how it could be misinterpreted because of the lack of context):

A civilian security force, that's just as well funded?

Isn't that a second military? What exactly would distinguish a 450 billion $/year security force from our current 450 bn/year security force, the military?

What makes such a force "civilian" in nature? The only thing I can think of is that they might be able to be deployed on american soil, without that pesky "habeas corpus" getting in the way.

Please, someone tell me why I'm wrong, because I don't want to be right on this one.

The scale of funding maybe unrealistic but it would be mistake to forget about this. This is a real mission to radicalize American youth and use their natural energy, idealism, and political inexperience to bring about his "social change" through threats, pressure, tension and confrontation — tactics used in the past - I will let you guess by which countries.

It has already started. Obama was a founding member of the board of Public Allies in 1992, resigning before his wife became executive director of the Chicago chapter of Public Allies in 1993. This is the model for this national service corps. This organization has already deployed 2,200 community organizers to agitate for "justice" and "equality".

Edited November 2, 2008 by ~Sophia~

[Jake_Ellison]

My apologies, I made the mistake of putting too much stock into Drudge's integrity( they linked to the video). There could be, and in fact was, a context which changes the meaning of the whole thing.

Here's the whole quote, including the part that was "accidentally" left out:

"And we are going to grow our foreign service, open consulates that have been shuttered and double the size of the Peace Corps by 2011 to renew our diplomacy," said Obama. "We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we have set. We have got to have a civilian national security force that is just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded."

Still quite stupid, but not nearly as scary as the video.

Answer the hypothetical question anyway, after all that is how the nazis expanded their power, so such a force would be a real threat to America as well.

[softwareNerd]

"... Obama. "We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we have set. We have got to have a civilian national security force that is just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded.

From that quote alone, it appears he is talking about setting up an aid-dispensing/ "nation-building" organization that will go help other countries.Maybe they can go help build an airport in Kenya. Edited November 2, 2008 by softwareNerd

[~Sophia~]

From that quote alone, it appears he is talking about setting up an aid-dispensing/ "nation-building" organization that will go help other countries.Maybe they can go help build an airport in Kenya.

National security objectives is just vague enough that it can mean all sorts of things inside and outside the country.

----------------

It reads on his website:

Obama and Biden will set a goal that all middle and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year (100 hours for college students). They will develop national guidelines for service - learning and will give schools better tools both to develop programs and to document student experience.

Why would you need national guidelines for volunteering? Why would it need to be documented?

"We'll reach this goal in several ways. At the middle and high school level, we'll make federal assistance conditional on school districts developing service programs and give schools resources to offer new service opportunities."

Very effective "encouraging".

[Jake_Ellison]

It reads on his website:

Obama and Biden will set a goal that all middle and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year (100 hours for college students). They will develop national guidelines for service - learning and will give schools better tools both to develop programs and to document student experience.

Why would you need national guidelines for volunteering? Why would it need to be documented?

"We'll reach this goal in several ways. At the middle and high school level, we'll make federal assistance conditional on school districts developing service programs and give schools resources to offer new service opportunities."

Very effective "encouraging".

What's even worse is that if you ask McCain about that, he'll tell you it's a good idea. In fact I remember hearing McCain about a year ago talking about a much longer, mandatory service for young people, as an alternative to rep. Charlie Rangel's proposal to reinstate the draft: in fact he made the argument that everyone should be required to sacrifice a full year , if I remember correctly, of their life for their country.

Just to back up my post.

Edited November 2, 2008 by Jake_Ellison

[Mammon]

(100 hours for college students).

Yeah sure, I have 100 hours just sitting around. It's not like I'm studying or working or anything.

[Steve D'Ippolito]

This scares me.

I've been maintaining for a long time that if I were A) evil B ) in the white house and C ) had 100,000 people willing to commit small acts of violence or petty vandalism, I could become dictator by the simple expedient of making it clear I would pardon any of those 100,000 who went after my opposition.

Giving them the impramatur of the government as "security forces" would be even better.

If you want to see this fictionalized (but based on the way the Nazis operated) see the story of Nightwatch on Babylon 5. Fairly innocuous to start with, then....

[dadmonson]

This scares me.

Only way I could be scared is if the US actually grows in spite of Obama's socialistic plans...

They have approval ratings for a reason.

[aristotlejones]

This scares me.

...

If you want to see this fictionalized (but based on the way the Nazis operated) see the story of Nightwatch on Babylon 5. Fairly innocuous to start with, then....

Always glad to meet another lurker.

The most detailed demonstration of the frog in the frying pan theory that I know of,

is Peikoff's "The Ominous Parallels."

http://www.peikoff.com/op/home.htm

<*>aj

[dadmonson]

Always glad to meet another lurker.

The most detailed demonstration of the frog in the frying pan theory that I know of,

is Peikoff's "The Ominous Parallels."

http://www.peikoff.com/op/home.htm

<*>aj

I know this is just wikipedia but some of the similiarities are uncanny... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi-Germany Take a look at what it reads under the subtitle, "Economy". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Nazi_Germany

Edited November 2, 2008 by dadmonson

[Mammon]

Despite the millions of comparisions of Obama to Hitler, one thing is always forgotten.

The Nazi's got elected while preaching against communism, riding in to office on the populations fears of communism.

[gags]

Despite the millions of comparisions of Obama to Hitler, one thing is always forgotten.

The Nazi's got elected while preaching against communism, riding in to office on the populations fears of communism.

Hmmmm... it looks like Obama is going to get elected preaching against Capitalism, riding in to office on the population's fears of deregulation.

[Mammon]

Hmmmm... it looks like Obama is going to get elected preaching against Capitalism, riding in to office on the population's fears of deregulation.

The point still stands -- that's not what the Nazi's were saying.

[gags]

Yeah and my point still stands. The guy is an anti-capitalist through and through.

[dadmonson]

"world history teaches us that no people has become great through its economy but that a people can very well perish thereby"- Hitler

"we are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system"-Hitler

Edited November 2, 2008 by dadmonson

[Grames]

"And we are going to grow our foreign service, open consulates that have been shuttered and double the size of the Peace Corps by 2011 to renew our diplomacy," said Obama. "We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we have set. We have got to have a civilian national security force that is just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded."

This is an idea that has been kicking around for a while, most eloquently raised by Thomas P. M. Barnett in the presentation he calls "The Pentagon's New Map".

Basically he accepts the idea that America is an empire, or at least part of one. Specifically it is the military muslce of the world order. He advocates doing it right. Here is a TED talk 23 minute presentation of his idea "The Pentagon's New Map: A Force to Wage War, Another to Wage Peace"

Waging peace is a fallacy. This poisonous mushroom of an idea swelled up during the worst part of the Iraqi occupation, before the military embraced the realization that it was fighting an insurgency sponsored by foreign powers, and which could be fought by conventional counter-insurgent tactics that have been proven to work over and over in the past ("the Surge"). The separate force idea has already been proven unnecessary by events on on the ground in Iraq, but Obama has never shown much interest in facts concerning Iraq.

[Maximus]

Obama has never shown much interest in the facts period.

[Zip]

National security objectives is just vague enough that it can mean all sorts of things inside and outside the country.

----------------

It reads on his website:

Obama and Biden will set a goal that all middle and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year (100 hours for college students). They will develop national guidelines for service - learning and will give schools better tools both to develop programs and to document student experience.

Why would you need national guidelines for volunteering? Why would it need to be documented?

"We'll reach this goal in several ways. At the middle and high school level, we'll make federal assistance conditional on school districts developing service programs and give schools resources to offer new service opportunities."

Very effective "encouraging".

Sophia, High School students in Ontario are already compelled to do 40 hours of documented volunteer work or they will not graduate.

In addition the academic bursaries and scholarships given out at my youngest daughters school last summer all called for "exemplary community service and leadership" as a prerequisite. My Daughter explained to me that that meant more than 40 hours volunteer work and was the only reason that having earned the highest average of all the students taking English (1200 of them) she, having gotten all of he volunteer work done in grade 9 and having gone to work was left with a photocopied certificate instead of a bursary or scholarship.

[KevinDW78]

My high school (In Akron, N.Y.) required us to do community service to graduate. It was part of health class (don't ask me why) But doing (I think it was 8 hours) community service was required to pass the course and passing the course was required to graduate.

[D'kian]

In Mexico college students must perform a set number of hours (I forget how many) of "social service" in order to aulify for graduation. Being Mexico, the practice is highly corrupt. Many get posts as "interns" in a family business, a lot more are used as "assistants" in a variety of campus positions (just about all the tech support is done by undergrads doing their service).

[~Sophia~]

Sophia, High School students in Ontario are already compelled to do 40 hours of documented volunteer work or they will not graduate.

I would assume it is similar to what we have here in BC (except it is 30h). There is a major difference. It is a part of career and personal development class. Students participate in a work/volunteer experience activity that supports their career, educational, and personal goals. There are no "national standards for service". (Of course it is not good that they have to do this in contrast to this class being optional).

[Zip]

I would assume it is similar to what we have here in BC (except it is 30h). There is a major difference. It is a part of career and personal development class. Students participate in a work/volunteer experience activity that supports their career, educational, and personal goals. There are no "national standards for service". (Of course it is not good that they have to do this in contrast to this class being optional).

No such luck, it isn't what the kid "volunteers" for in Ontario, just that they "volunteer". My Daughter chose to do work for an old teacher of hers (she was an architect and served as quite a roll model for her) rather than sling sandwitches at a shelter or something like some of her friends did.

Funny, in the army we have a name for this kind of "volunteerism"... it's called being voluntold.

[Thomas M. Miovas Jr.]

This Civilian Paramilitary Force is definitely making the rounds in all the usual conspiracy places, but it is unclear if Obama is talking about something like a broader overseas Peace Corp or whether he is taking about the beginnings of some sort of Brown shirts operating within the USA border. There doesn't seem to be any news on this aside from that one video clip, and Obama isn't making himself clear. Maybe he is testing the waters or putting up a trial balloon, but most American's shudder when they think of a Brown shirt Corp in the United States. Fox News did some reporting on it and my parents are convinced that Obama wants a civilian paramilitary force to help govern America in a socialist paradise. I don't know, since I can't find it reported anywhere aside from that one video clip.

We'll have to keep an eye on this, especially if he gets elected. But if he gets a fully backed Congress and Senate, who knows what he will try. I'm not voting for him or McCain, as I think Obama is too far left, and McCain is not a force to be reckoned with to fight against the Leftists.

It's going to be a very troubling two to four years regardless of who gets elected to the Presidency.

[Grames]

I would expect him to ask for both an Obama Youth and an overseas corps. Congress won't say no.

Edited November 4, 2008 by Grames