About the Russian aggression of Ukraine

[whYNOT]

9 hours ago, AlexL said:

You obviously forgot(?) why I asked you the above question !

You implied that, while Agnes Hellström is indeed a "peace activist", she is NOT a "pacifists against self-defence". And you presented no proof that she is indeed FOR self-defence.

The larger context of the above theme was that you approvingly quoted/referenced her as an argument that Sweden's joining of NATO is indeed a big mistake.

So, again: Is Agnes Hellström indeed for self-defence? Can you present some evidence? For example in Israel's case?

I take this particular case because YOU are (unexpectedly for me) FOR Israel's right for self-defense in the current conflict.

 

On 10/21/2023 at 3:04 AM, whYNOT said:

And that's a slur against her? I'd believe more "peace activists" and less warmongers was what was required. For "peace", so long as they are not pacifists against self-defence, mind. 

 

The above is what I wrote. "As long as they are not pacifists against self-defense..."

I have no interest if Agnes is a peace activist pro- or against self-defense. Anyhow, they are not mutually exclusive, she might be for world peace while also for the right of defense.

I do not need to know either.

She and her host made a compelling case for Sweden and Swedes being fear-mongered to join NATO.

That corresponds to what I read and surmised.

My interest in Agnes ends there.

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by whYNOT

[Grames]

On 10/21/2023 at 9:33 PM, necrovore said:

He sees the generally pro-Ukraine position of the mainstream Western media as being a result of the activity of a centrally-driven propaganda machine - a conspiracy, IOW. He sees no other possible explanation.

He ain't wrong on this. The CIA, State Department and Pentagon have been writing the headlines in this country for decades now.  People in news organizations cooperate willingly for the social status and the promise of future inside information which helps their careers and personal wealth.  This is so commonplace and ordinary that some people don't even recognize it as corruption.

[Grames]

On 10/19/2023 at 10:24 PM, whYNOT said:

Not like you to reverse causation.

Why does Gaza even exist?  Big picture.

[stansfield123]

On 10/22/2023 at 9:29 AM, whYNOT said:

Nah, in this thread, this is a follow-the-government-line "fan-forum".

One can't go wrong faithfully obliging the Establishment.

I have no idea what any of that means.

[AlexL]

On 10/23/2023 at 3:00 PM, necrovore said:

When you imply that someone is a conspiracy theorist, that is a statement about the person rather than the argument they are making.

Rather than the argument, you say?? Here is again my description of  @whYNOT's argument/position and my refutation:

Quote

He sees the generally pro-Ukraine position of the mainstream Western media as being a result of the activity of a centrally-driven propaganda machine - a conspiracy, IOW. He sees no other possible explanation.

And @whYNOT gave no evidence that the entire Western media is centrally-driven.

So that there was no ad hominem fallacy on my part.

[tadmjones]

Is the notion that that CIA coined the term 'conspiracy theory(ist)' as a propaganda tool to dissuade people from engaging in the idea that JFK's assassination may not be the result of a lone wolf actor, a theory about a conspiracy ? or an actual action of the CIA?

Trump is a Russian agent!! Proof pending..

Covid infection is lethal!!

Covid mRNA injections are safe and effective !!

Snickers really satisfy!!

Yeah , what is Tony on about.

I'm sure you just mean , that you have to challenge his assertion that the 'entire' , every single vestige of the 'media' is centrally directed verbatim yada , yada.

All lives matter is racist!!

Ukraine is basically Kansas!! Who wouldn't display the colors?! a Traitor that's who !!

[Grames]

With World Focused On Israel, WaPo Boasts CIA Is Behind Brazen Assassinations Of Russians

BY TYLER DURDEN

TUESDAY, OCT 24, 2023 - 07:05 PM

At a moment the globe's attention is by and large completely focused on events in Gaza, The Washington Post has this week published a bombshell report which vindicates Moscow's worst fears. Up to now, any pundit daring to write that Putin's accusations that the West has for years backed a covert campaign to destabilize Russia while stoking the 2014 (and after) civil war in Donbass, was smeared as a 'pro-Kremlin propagandist'. 

But now, the D.C. establishment's premier newspaper is openly admitting that the CIA is actively running covert ops inside Russia, which has included the killing of journalist and geopolitical commentator Darya Dugina, the daughter of Alexaner Dugin. Another "conspiracy theory" has been belatedly admitted as conspiracy fact.

The report stunningly documents of this "shadow war" that, "The missions have involved elite teams of Ukrainian operatives drawn from directorates that were formed, trained, and equipped in close partnership with the CIA, according to current and former Ukrainian and US officials. Since 2015, the CIA has spent tens of millions of dollars to transform Ukraine’s Soviet-formed services into potent allies against Moscow, officials said."

Link: https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/world-focused-israel-gaza-wapo-boasts-cia-has-been-behind-brazen-assassinations

Link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/23/ukraine-cia-shadow-war-russia/

[AlexL]

On 10/23/2023 at 8:16 PM, whYNOT said:

The above is what I wrote. "As long as they are not pacifists against self-defense..."

I have no interest if Agnes is a peace activist pro- or against self-defense.

I am convinced that, if you read again what I wrote, you will get my point.

(My point was about the connection between you linking approvingly to Agnes Hellström's opinion and the relevance of her kind of pacifism.)

Edited October 25, 2023 by AlexL

[AlexL]

12 hours ago, tadmjones said:

Is the notion that that CIA [...]

I'm sure you just mean [...] yada , yada.

Is this for me? If it is, then first cool down. Then explain, calmly, your objection to my comments.

[whYNOT]

There'd not have been a war without close collusion of Western Gvts./Nato with their flunky western media. The immense sacrifices demanded requires sanction from unthinking, misinformed majorities, driven by emotions whipped up by the media.

Ukraine in some regional wrangle with Russia? Were there solutions on hand? Yes. Simply slap temporary sanctions on both; tell them both to behave, stand down and begin negotiations--instantly - before conflict escalates.

Why is it our business? - stay out. 

If just in retrospect, one can now see that was too simple or rational;  an unsuitable resolution contrary to the ultimate goals of the 'powers that be. Therefore, they intended war.

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by whYNOT

[Grames]

Ukraine will never get another dime from the American congress now that the new Speaker of the House Mike Johnson is so adamantly against it.   Ukraine cannot continue without American funding.  Ukraine will require time to accept the inevitable, and Russia will now press its advantage and no longer feels pressure to negotiate.  Therefore much territory will change hands on the ground over the next few months as Ukraine runs out of ammunition, men and money for salaries and Swiss bank accounts.

[AlexL]

26 minutes ago, Grames said:

Ukraine will never get another dime from the American congress [...]

We'll see soon. 

I'm glad for you that this would make you happy😁

[whYNOT]

9 hours ago, Grames said:

Ukraine will never get another dime from the American congress now that the new Speaker of the House Mike Johnson is so adamantly against it.   Ukraine cannot continue without American funding.  Ukraine will require time to accept the inevitable, and Russia will now press its advantage and no longer feels pressure to negotiate.  Therefore much territory will change hands on the ground over the next few months as Ukraine runs out of ammunition, men and money for salaries and Swiss bank accounts.

 The "last Ukrainian" perhaps will survive. It was a given that, once committed, Russia would not be driven out; Ukraine would be largely drained, for - "principles". Victory, at all costs, to keep Russia in its place. Mediate with Putin and make concessions - initially agreed upon by Kiev before outside interference- (and his quite reasonable security demands), long before arriving at this point - unthinkable.

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by whYNOT

[Grames]

On 10/26/2023 at 1:19 PM, whYNOT said:

 ... Mediate with Putin and make concessions - unthinkable.

Probably correct.  The situation will progress until the Ukrainian government is no longer required to think, merely comply.

[AlexL]

Recent micro-poll in Rostov region of Russia:

 

Edited November 10, 2023 by AlexL

[Grames]

Managing expectations.  Shifting the goalposts.  Redefining success.

  

[whYNOT]

https://sonar21.com/the-west-pushed-ukraine-to-war-and-now-it-is-paying-the-butchers-bill/

How, in fact, with the cover-up emerging, the Western bloc's total evasion of reality - those all too-predictable consequences we can see - directly caused massive self-sacrifices and the sacrifice of a country. They could have made and received Russian concessions from early.

But their priorities and ambitions lay further afield.

Edited December 5, 2023 by whYNOT

[AlexL]

On 1/29/2023 at 12:06 AM, Grames said:

These [31 Abrams tanks for Ukraine] ... will never arrive in Ukraine .

🤣🤣🤣 Well, they did. All of them:

 

All 31 Abrams Tanks in Ukraine, US Military Confirms to VOA (16 Oct 2023)

Edited January 5 by AlexL

[Grames]

14 hours ago, AlexL said:

All 31 Abrams Tanks in Ukraine, US Military Confirms to VOA (16 Oct 2023)

Once again I have over estimated Russian military competence.  The war is still dragging on and it seems to be deliberate strategy on Russia's part to make the war last as long as possible.   None of the Abrams have been to the front yet even months after delivery.  What's up with that?

[AlexL]

6 hours ago, Grames said:

Once again I have over estimated Russian military competence.

My comment was about your prophecy that the 31 Abrams tanks will never arrive in Ukraine.

Although this did not follow from the context of your prophecy, were you implicitly counting on the Russian military competence for the delivery to fail?

 

Edited January 6 by AlexL

[Boydstun]

 

NATO

NATO Nuclear Deterrence

[whYNOT]

The urgent imperative to maintain NATO’s nuclear deterrence

---

"The dismal performance of Russia’s conventional forces in the early days of the war in Ukraine risks convincing some in NATO that the future Russian threat to the Alliance can be deterred primarily via NATO’s conventional superiority, and that enhancing deterrence of Russian nuclear use in a future conflict is therefore no longer a high priority. This is a dangerous fallacy".

Well, no. All wrong.

The "dismal performance" by Russia in the first months is fully predicated upon a belief in total 'invasion' that the West saw (or pretended to see and promoted). I.E. The Russian comprehensive conquest of Ukraine--and countries beyond Ukraine. The fact of the matter - as any proper military analyst could tell: this was never remotely likely, with the size of the initial Russian force and other factors. The 'invasion' was a police action by a small expeditionary force to show Russia was deadly serious and was intended to drive Zelensky to negotiations. It worked, Z agreed to security/neutrality concessions,  until Boris Johnson intervened: The fighting must go on.

(And none of this intervention was publicly exposed until much later when there was no going back ).

Only months after did the forces get increased by 300k men in Russia's mobilization when it became apparent there would not be talks allowed by the West and full war would go ahead.

Shrewd of NATO. An organization based on mutual self-defence, which had no hostile enemy to 'defend' against for 30 years and may as well have packed up, finally rediscovered its raison d'etre and mojo by goading Russia into ITS self-defense. "We told you Russia would try to rise again!!". Vindicated at last.

Because wherever or who you are, no citizen nor leaders will abide the permanent threats of ICBM's parked just over your border and your neighbor transformed into a huge military (NATO) arsenal.

Europe may fool themselves they are safer now; I think NATO's "nuclear deterrence" escalation signal has made things distinctly unsafe. They continue beating the same drum to instill fear and obedience into Europe. To date, acting without knowledge of Putin/Russia's objectives (and non-objectives) and making false assumptions, because officials are too high and mighty to meet and talk. 

Edited January 27 by whYNOT

[Grames]

The U.S. state of Texas and the U.S. federal gov't are disputing control of Texas border.  Court cases are in progress, injunctions awarded and then vacated, 25 other states are siding with Texas.   Into this Russia decides to start talking shit.  I find it amusing.  (Make a point even if fake news.)

Edited January 28 by Grames
fake but still on point

[Jon Letendre]

Going by the Ukraine morons' logic;

Russia must figure out who is more moral: The Republic of Texas or human trafficking drug cartels? And morally back them.

Russia is not obligated to send weapons by ship to Port Houston but doing so would be morally unobjectionable and would in no way risk escalation.

Any innocent immigrants lost are the sole responsibility of the cartels and none at all to Russia or her Texan clients.

[whYNOT]

An interview that's long overdue - why? Perhaps because one like it reaching a large audience could have earlier curtailed this war. 

Yaron was morally appalled with Tucker. But that's what professional journalists must do: find us information, motivations, objectives, etc. - approve of the interviewees (and interviewer) or not. And two years of the one-sided and brushed-under info keeping Westerners semi-informed to promote and extend an avoidable war at Ukraine's final cost, has been horribly wrong.

"Judge, and..." when you know the basic FACTS. Which most still don't.

YB

https://youtu.be/tF79RI7_cGA?si=I1pJoW208HICPOXF

and Redacted:

 

https://youtu.be/EcpHS0qBuOk?si=lOiqRY6V0M7LCyVu

 

Edited February 6 by whYNOT