Israelo-Palestinian Conflict: 2023 Edition

[SpookyKitty]

11 hours ago, whYNOT said:

What was plotted by Hamas and the rest could soon be something to do with everyone.

Why does anyone expect this to remain localized, not part of a grander scheme?

It is plain, they've detected the West's intellectual frailty, and infighting, like the divisions over anti-Semitism, they have achieved rousing Western solidarity (campuses etc.) The best time to spread onwards to other regions.

With global backing from their malleable followers.

A caution, they have smart experts in the political section who understand their western foes, Hamas are not all dumb thugs.

Europe next?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67715120

Israel will continue with its crimes, and, as usual, taxpayers in the West will be forced to foot the bill. Nothing unusual here, except now the West will be expected to pay with its own blood, too.

I am so thankful to Israel for making all of us safer.

Edited December 15, 2023 by SpookyKitty

[tadmjones]

Israel and the western governments are sinful in the sense that sin means ‘missing the mark’. The failures to meet the mark should be judged in the context of the aim, the overall arc of actions taken toward an aim. And that means the mark or aim is the standard to judge the actions and missteps or failures of attaining the end. 
 

A goal or mark can be for evil or for good , failure to attain an evil end isn’t sinful in that it should be condemned. 
 

The idea that Israel should be isn’t an evil to be perpetrated on humankind. In as much as the goal of establishing Israel as nation is a good end , the fallibility inherent in human projects means there are guaranteed to be shortfallings. Identifying and trying for corrections are what principles are for , yeah?

 

Israel turned a desert into a veritable paradise, some of the actions taken toward bringing that goal into being may be sinful but the goal isn’t in any real sense evil.

[whYNOT]

18 hours ago, SpookyKitty said:

And if this hypothetical US was also subjecting Jews in occupied territories to arbitrary arrest, indefinite detention, and military tribunals with no recourse to legal defense, I imagine that wouldn't go too well either?

And so it goes on, SillyKitty making a moral equivalence (even - the moral supremacy of Hamas).

Obviously she missed out on Rand's "hierarchy of values". Israel to Hamas, is comparing apples to ... cyanide pills.

Ask the Arab Israelis living there who would not be anywhere else.

The definition of "sacrifice"? Sacrificing a greater value to a lesser/non-value... Exactly what Israel must do to itself, to satisfy the false 'humanitarians'.

Never expect kindness or humanity from altruists, they are directly opposed.

Maybe SK didn't hear that Hamas's idea of "legal defense" trial and due process is tossing people (suspected informers, gays, Fatah members and others) off of buildings?

UNWRA doesn't report those.

 

Edited December 15, 2023 by whYNOT

[whYNOT]

6 hours ago, SpookyKitty said:

 

I am so thankful to Israel for making all of us safer.

It would require one's intellectualism, not our feelings, to ascertain that the Islamist-neo-Marxist ideologies are what is opposed to "making all of us safer". 

[EC]

3 hours ago, whYNOT said:

And so it goes on, SillyKitty making a moral equivalence (even - the moral supremacy of Hamas).

Obviously she missed out on Rand's "hierarchy of values". Israel to Hamas, is comparing apples to ... cyanide pills.

Ask the Arab Israelis living there who would not be anywhere else.

The definition of "sacrifice"? Sacrificing a greater value to a lesser/non-value... Exactly what Israel must do to itself, to satisfy the false 'humanitarians'.

Never expect kindness or humanity from altruists, they are directly opposed.

Maybe SK didn't hear that Hamas's idea of "legal defense" trial and due process is tossing people (suspected informers, gays, Fatah members and others) off of buildings?

UNWRA doesn't report those.

 

She's also directly promoting evil ideas on this forum outside of the debate forum which is a direct violation of forum rules.

[SpookyKitty]

3 hours ago, whYNOT said:

And so it goes on, SillyKitty making a moral equivalence (even - the moral supremacy of Hamas).

Obviously she missed out on Rand's "hierarchy of values". Israel to Hamas, is comparing apples to ... cyanide pills.

Ask the Arab Israelis living there who would not be anywhere else.

The definition of "sacrifice"? Sacrificing a greater value to a lesser/non-value... Exactly what Israel must do to itself, to satisfy the false 'humanitarians'.

Never expect kindness or humanity from altruists, they are directly opposed.

Maybe SK didn't hear that Hamas's idea of "legal defense" trial and due process is tossing people (suspected informers, gays, Fatah members and others) off of buildings?

UNWRA doesn't report those.

 

Yes, how evil of me to ask Israel to sacrifice "higher" values such as oppression, systemic murder, property and land theft, racism, and religious discrimination to "lower" values such as justice, equality, and peace.

[SpookyKitty]

3 hours ago, whYNOT said:

It would require one's intellectualism, not our feelings, to ascertain that the Islamist-neo-Marxist ideologies are what is opposed to "making all of us safer". 

We were having an intellectual exchange and then you ignored all that in favor of name-calling and scare-mongering.

Quote

Islamist-neo-Marxist ideologies

XD Really? Are you sure it's not the Mormonist-neo-Ricardians? I must warn you, I can string random words together, too.

[SpookyKitty]

Unfortunately, but not surprisingly, Israel has just murdered three of the Israeli hostages while they were being moved because they mistakenly thought they were Palestinian civilians.

Edited December 15, 2023 by SpookyKitty

[whYNOT]

13 hours ago, SpookyKitty said:

Israel will continue with its crimes, and, as usual, taxpayers in the West will be forced to foot the bill. Nothing unusual here, except now the West will be expected to pay with its own blood, too.

 

Where did you see Israel demanding help from "the West"!?

It is not Ukraine.

It pays for or manufactures its armaments.

I well and truly hope that no Western/US forces enter into the conflict.

Israel must go this alone, as it always has - if needs be, taking on the Hezbollah aggression.

All it needs is *moral* support, and that, those like yourself who want the country eradicated for Islamicism are clearly campaigning on social media and in the streets to stifle.

Edited December 15, 2023 by whYNOT

[whYNOT]

15 minutes ago, SpookyKitty said:

Unfortunately, but not surprisingly, Israel has just murdered three of the Israeli hostages while they were being moved because they mistakenly thought they were Palestinian civilians.

As if you give a damn for the hostages. If true, this must give you pleasure.

[SpookyKitty]

11 minutes ago, whYNOT said:

All it needs is *moral* support, and that, those like yourself who want the country eradicated for Islamicism are clearly campaigning to stifle on social media.

I am no fan of any kind of religion, let alone Islam. Your implication that I wish for the eradication of any people by any other is disgusting, considering that you're the one pining for the blood of innocent Palestinians.

Quote

As if you give a damn for the hostages. If true, this must give you pleasure.

Unlike you, I believe that all human life has value, Israeli lives as well as Palestinian lives. You cannot understand this because you are an utterly depraved, foaming at the mouth, Attila wannabe.

[whYNOT]

53 minutes ago, SpookyKitty said:

 

Unlike you, I believe that all human life has value, Israeli lives as well as Palestinian lives.

A sudden turnaround. Belatedly you now claim "value" for all lives. All along, you've not mentioned "innocent" "Israeli lives".

If you'd valued "all human life" you'd - foremost - have castigated the initiators of the force.

The first cause of violence.

A country has the "moral imperative" to protect its citizens from aggression. As the right each has for him/herself.

And must end the aggression - permanently - for the long term. Not for this month or year.

Inciting another country to attack yours, irrefutably displays -you, Hamas- have nil value in your citizens' lives.

How much can one value those who don't value themselves or their people?

So again, it's demanded of Israel that they self-sacrifice future and present lives in favor of those who cannot value their own.

No, I don't believe you. Too little, too late.

Edited December 16, 2023 by whYNOT

[whYNOT]

1 hour ago, SpookyKitty said:

I am no fan of any kind of religion, let alone Islam. Your implication that I wish for the eradication of any people by any other is disgusting ...

Yet, you have lent your voice to blocking Israel's just and defensive war against Islamicist attempts to end its existence. Makes you a useful idiot for the Islamic terrorists.

[SpookyKitty]

whyNOT, you are in absolutely no position to be calling ANYONE else any kind of idiot. The only ones who place no value in the lives of the Palestinian people are those calling for their eradication and those who are indiscriminately killing tens of thousands of them right now. You are just projecting your own vile hatred, racism and blood lust onto others.

You mindlessly bootlick for fascism and genocide, while ignoring any reasonable argument against your position. You are an absolute miserable failure of a human being, let alone an Objectivist. You are a moral coward and an empty-headed waste of space.

Go sack a village or whatever vile shit you do and quit wasting my time.

[whYNOT]

Hah. Got a Woke lunatic here, spreading bile when they haven't an argument.

You want to hear who sustains proper life-values in the M.E. ? The Jews. An unpopular notion.

Golda Meir or somebody, who said something like: We might forgive the Palestinians for killing our sons but can never forgive them for forcing us to kill theirs.

I strongly endorse her view.

That idea stands even in war today with most Jews who equally deplore the deaths of enemy civilians in a defensive war. But faced with "either you or us", it will have to be you.

Try to imagine a Hamas leader saying the same. No. They want both "our sons" and - evidently - their own, dying for international propaganda in their cause of Islamicist domination. 

 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2023 by whYNOT

[SpookyKitty]

1 hour ago, whYNOT said:

Hah. Got a Woke lunatic here, spreading bile when they haven't an argument.

You want to hear who sustains proper life-values in the M.E. ? The Jews. An unpopular notion.

And here we go with the race realism, or, as most people call it, real racism.

Quote

Golda Meir or somebody, who said something like: We might forgive the Palestinians for killing our sons but can never forgive them for forcing us to kill theirs.

I strongly endorse her view.

Then you are both disgusting pieces of murderous garbage. Vile filth.

[Easy Truth]

6 hours ago, whYNOT said:

Where did you see Israel demanding help from "the West"!?

What is the point of helping a nation that does not require any help? 

Based on what you have said there is no reason for the US to help Israel. You've made a strong case for that.

Are you also going to make the case that Israel does not have a strong lobby in the US?

[whYNOT]

2 hours ago, SpookyKitty said:

And here we go with the race realism, or, as most people call it, real racism.

Then you are both disgusting pieces of murderous garbage. Vile filth.

Didn't you grasp the meaning of that quotation?

I will simplify. Israel was always forced to fight defensive wars. Other nations and terrorist organizations.

Israelis could mourn their own fallen soldiers - and - mourn too, that they were instrumental in killing the enemy's "sons", in order to survive. Meir indicated this guilt was worse for the Jews.

If that's not unheard of, unique compassion for one's enemy's losses, what is?

But you will impose your own dirty narrative onto it.

 

Edited December 16, 2023 by whYNOT

[whYNOT]

41 minutes ago, Easy Truth said:

What is the point of helping a nation that does not require any help? 

Based on what you have said there is no reason for the US to help Israel. You've made a strong case for that.

Are you also going to make the case that Israel does not have a strong lobby in the US?

It's not just Gaza. That war will not need assistance. The Hezbollah Army, proxy of Iran in Lebanon, currently firing into Northern Israel, is huge, battle hardened and well-organized.

It's uncertain if Israel could drive them back. Even so, the US should not intervene, while keeping a naval presence nearby is valuable as a warning to Iran, the common enemy of both Israel and US, to stay out. Tensions are dangerously high in the area. Only Iran's direct military interference, and the Mullahs claim they don't want that, should legitimately draw US strikes.  

I gave my opinion ~against~ pro-Israel, Jewish lobby groups in USA. Imo, the two nations should keep good relations and share assets but maintain some distance. Too close, I've noticed, is harmful to the interests of each. 

Edited December 16, 2023 by whYNOT

[SpookyKitty]

28 minutes ago, whYNOT said:

Didn't you grasp the meaning of that quotation?

I will simplify. Israel was always forced to fight defensive wars. Other nations and terrorist organizations.

Israelis could mourn their own fallen soldiers - and - mourn too, that they were instrumental in killing the enemy's "sons", in order to survive. Meir indicated this was worse.

If that's not unheard of, unique compassion for an enemy's losses, what is?

But you will impose your own dirty narrative onto it.

 

Your morality is radioactive ass cancer and your mind is a swarm of retarded flies. What makes you think I would lower myself to discuss anything with you? You deserve nothing but derision and mockery.

Do me a favor. Find the world's most prolific pedophile, bury yourself up to your nose in his rancid shit, and then meditate for three days on the stench. Then you will be one one millionth of a step closer to understanding how awful you truly are.

 

Edited December 16, 2023 by SpookyKitty

[whYNOT]

Bananas. Good bye.

[SpookyKitty]

1 minute ago, whYNOT said:

Bananas. Good bye.

Go back to stormfront and don't come back.

[necrovore]

If I had neighbors who were firing rockets into a foreign country, that's an act of war, and I would expect to run the risk of being killed by the foreign country's retaliation, even though I didn't do anything, and even if I ran an orphanage full of children or something.

I would also expect my own government to protect me (and the children) by either stopping the neighbors and possibly extraditing them, or incarcerating them locally, which might be an option -- or formally attacking the foreign country to prevent them from retaliating. (This latter is unlikely. A government would probably prefer to start a war itself rather than let my neighbors drag it into one.)

It doesn't make any sense to claim that the other country is "monstrous" in some way for defending itself but that one's own country is not "monstrous" for provoking it by attacking them (or refusing to stop attacks upon them) in the first place.

The initiation of force is wrong, but retaliation is not.

[AlexL]

10 hours ago, SpookyKitty said:

Your morality is radioactive ass cancer and your mind is a swarm of retarded flies. What makes you think I would lower myself to discuss anything with you? You deserve nothing but derision and mockery.

Do me a favor. Find the world's most prolific pedophile, bury yourself up to your nose in his rancid shit, and then meditate for three days on the stench. Then you will be one one millionth of a step closer to understanding how awful you truly are.

Is this language acceptable in this forum? @dream_weaver

[necrovore]

15 minutes ago, AlexL said:

Is this language acceptable in this forum?

I will agree that ad hominem statements don't add any value and tend toward making the forum less useful for everybody.